Breaking Through, Part 1
FINDING YOUR VOICE
with Joel Boggess
“Breaking Through” with Lance Wallnau
Podcast #105 on March 7, 2012
Transcript provided by:
Speech Text Access LLC
( music playing )
>> I have a voice.
>> I have a voice.
>> I have a voice.
>> And no one can find it but me.
>> Knowing my voice is understanding who I really am.
>> What excites me.
>> And what I stand for.
>> I owe it to myself.
>> I owe it to my family.
>> I owe it to God. When you find your voice, you find a way back.
>> You find a way back.
>> You find a way back to yourself.
( end of music playing )
>>JOEL: Hi, it’s me, Joel, and this is part one of a two-part interview series with Dr. Lance Wallnau. And you can find him at lancelearning.com.
Hi, it’s me, Joel; and you’re listening to Finding Your Voice. And joining us on the show today is—how do I introduce you Dr. Lance? You’re a, you’re a gifted speaker; you’re a transformational coach; you travel all over the world helping organizations and leaders get in touch with their core purpose and their reason for being. I don’t know, what should I say?
>>LANCE: Well, that just shows I never could figure out what I did for a living so I just did a whole lot of stuff.
>>JOEL: Did you even realize that you did that much?
>>LANCE: Yeah, well, you know the truth is what I listen for now is whatever the client is calling for is typically how I’m doing. So I work—right now I’m working with like a multibillion-dollar corporation in Indonesia doing executive training and coaching for a company with 30,000 employees. So, you know, that’s, it’s—basically we, when you have—and this is like for your audience to know—when you plug into your passion and you find your gifting you’re not locked into any one job description.
>>LANCE: You now can be multifaceted.
>>JOEL: Absolutely and that’s actually one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the show is because some of the things that I’ve heard you talk about as it relates to following your passion and tapping into your emotional drivers. And kind of like to unpack some of your thoughts and ideas on that, if you don’t mind.
>>LANCE: Sure. Yeah, well, you know, what drove me to this was working in my background; was actually in the oil business and I was working in a place in Long Island which is, ironically, Babylon, New York. And when I was in Babylon I was praying and—because I wanted to get Babylon I read the Bible and I said Babylon is someplace are supposed to flee, anyway. I wanted to be in ministry and it never occurred to me that I could find my ministry in Babylon; I could find my calling in the world’s system and transform nations and people by actually doing what I’m called to do.
>> JOEL: Right.
>> LANCE: And then I started really unpacking and saying maybe I’m not the only person with the struggle. Maybe lots of believers are trying to figure out how do I move from the work I’m doing to the work I’m called to do and is it only in ministry? If I love God can it be someplace else?
>>JOEL: Absolutely. You know, it reminds me of a story. About a year ago or so ago my wife and I were speaking at a women’s conference and right at the start of the conference one of the ladies said to me—we were going to talk about passion— and one of the ladies said you know I don’t want my passion; I want God’s passion. And as godly and as spiritual as that sounds, during the course of the day she came to see things a little bit different. But the way she framed it—she saw it as a godly thing to starve herself of passion in pursuit of, you know—
>>LANCE: It’s crazy and you—I’ve seen it so frequently. It’s scary because what a religious spirit does is in an effort to sanctify your passion it will emasculate your calling.
>>JOEL: Yeah, going to that, please.
>>LANCE: So what, so what happens is believers have a passion— let’s say it’s in arts, music or they see themselves on the cover of a book or magazine or something like that. I’ve actually had entrepreneurs in meetings that I’ve done in other countries who had callings to politics, but when they went to their church to talk about it the church told them that since they were a businessman their calling was to make money to support the kingdom and that it was selfish ambition for them to be looking at politics as a career.
And so that’s when I realized that many believers and many—like I pastored for 20 years so I was as sincere as anybody doing these circumcisions and I’m part Jewish so I felt like it was a rabbinic obligation to sanctify the flesh with everybody and I would do that by cutting off ambitions that I didn’t see as advancing the kingdom. And I realized—wait a second these passions and these callings are advancing the kingdoms in places that, traditionally, the church has never been.
>>JOEL: So what are some of the blocks that you’ve realized over the years in doing this? People’s roadblocks to not wanting to pursue their passion, thinking it’s just a…
>>LANCE: First thing is this: the verse that I would use to perform my circumcision.
>>LANCE: Passions was the wrong one or the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things who can know it. So the first thing I would do is I would have people disconnect from what they were feeling they wanted to do and say well you can’t go by that. You have to, you know, you have your mind renewed and God will give you new desires which to me were always missions, widows, orphans, evangelism and revival, you know, classic pastoral obligation; you know, the revivalist thinking.
And then I started—then the Lord started dealing with me and saying that is an Old Testament quote to people that didn’t know me. In the New Testament it’s not that the heart is deceitfully wicked. And here’s the verse God gave me: whatsoever things you desire when you pray, believe you receive them. And right away I realized your desire is plugged into His desire when you are a genuine follower of Christ.
>>JOEL: Now, tell me about that. Was that just a light switch going off in your mind or was that a gradual process?
>>LANCE: It—well it was a gradual process that culminated and moments like anything else in life where I realized, wait a second maybe the desire of the heart is an indication of ultimate direction. What we don’t have, yet, is a total understanding of how it’s going to work itself out which is why it’s more important to identify your passion than to identify the job you’re trying to get.
>>JOEL: You know, one of the things that I heard you say in one of your DVD programs, At Level 10 Living—I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched that—you talked about sometimes people are just afraid of pursuing their passions because really they are thinking that well maybe they’re just unsanctified desires. And that term just, it’s stuck in my head and I’m thinking, my gosh, is that what is keeping people?
>>LANCE: And think about how ludicrous it is because then the position of Christians says we lament the deterioration of the world so we say oh, the movies, oh the music, oh the TV and oh the politics and what it does is we start getting all (UNINTELLIGIBLE) over the deterioration of culture because we’re not engaged in it. So why don’t you write the better movie, write the better song, sing the better song, write the better bestseller and since God’s anointed you with gifts and callings to be manifest in places other than Sunday morning or Wednesday night at church, why don’t you let the gifts manifest in Babylon and you could be like Daniel; shape the environment rather than grumble about it.
>>JOEL: Absolutely. You know, I would rather sell and be accepting that Oscar award or that Tony award nomination that’s a believer that’s deep into the relationship with Christ.
>>LANCE: I mean we’re seeing this in athletics, Tebow, right? And then there’s the Chinese or the guys who’s—what’s his name again? Lin?
>>LANCE: Like, and so, right, the guy’s a Christian. I mean, you know, some people may not know that but he actually, you know, he was discipled in a Bible study at Harvard where some guys, you know, that I know, ministered to him. So the Lord has his people and when they do what they’re gifted to do and they’re passioned to do there’s a way to manifest it.
>>JOEL: Absolutely. You know, another Scripture in the Bible that I think back to and I’m paraphrasing here, but it says that you know God has given you the desire and the abilities to do what is most pleasing for Him. And I’m not a Bible teacher; didn’t pastor like you did, Dr. Lance, but to me that means that the passion that has been put in us is sanctified by God and He also gives us the tools that we need.
>>LANCE: You got it. And it’s funny you say that because I just was studying that yesterday. Philippians: For God is at work in you, both, to will and to do His good pleasure. Which means that all those believers that are love and worship and soaking and praying—like I run into them all the time—that they really are pursuing God’s presence. Get this; what comes out of those seasons in His presence is an alignment to will what He wills and to do what He does so your passion is actually an indicator of your ultimate direction.
>>JOEL: You know, when I read that passage in Philippians, and I’m just a layman over here, but to me that means that what we want to do the most, anyways, is what God put us here for.
>>LANCE: Absolutely. And then, you know, this is why I say, oh man, this is such an important subject. Like the number one inhibitor—when I do a passion process—which is what we call it—when I take a person into an event and I bring them up on a platform and we literally go through a process. In like 10 minutes we can collapse all of the fragmented desires and yearnings that are the heart into a singular focus—one or two sentences—that crystallizes what the person’s ultimate destiny is. With the more they can articulate it, the more the room feels it because when you are doing what you were purposed to do, there’s an anointing that comes with it.
The challenge, number one challenge with Christians—I find is not with non-Christians; this is the irony is it—is Christians confuse their values with their passion so that they mingle into their passion things like you know they’ll say like this is a classic one from Orlando I saw: when a woman said I want to help deliver young women from bondage. I want to save people and I want to be able to be in the fashion industry.
It was so weird because when she said fashion industry her face lit up and we all felt it. The other two were values mingled with passions. When Christians insert their values—because they, we feel obligated to win the loss that people free, love God, you know, serve God—that amped ambiguous value system, it’s not a passion. It may be, maybe it’s something you love to do and if you’re called to be a worship leader, it may be your passion, but unconsciously, Christians thread these, sense these sanctifying statements into their passion list so they end up with a hodgepodge that doesn’t stimulate them.
>>JOEL: Okay. That’s, that’s such an important distinction. Can you give one more example of a person confusing their values and their passions?
>>LANCE: Yeah, I’ll give you one right away.
>>LANCE: A professional woman, here’s a woman who is a key attorney’s wife in Aruba.
>>LANCE: Her name is Angelie. She, herself, is an administrative with a legal background. And I bring her up for this process. And this is my big ah-ha, especially with women, that she, that a person—I’ll have them list their top 10 passions. What is it that gives them the most juice; brings the most to live with what they really have to do and have in your life, in their life?
She had all these things listed up there, some were her Christian values like, you know, ministering to the laws or, you know, helping young women, which are by the way all good things.
>> JOEL: Oh, yeah.
>>LANCE: But was she had as number seven was delivering women out of the bondage of unjust slavery and oppression and the sex slave trade and stuff like that which is kind of a hot subject now. And when she said it she had tears in her eyes. And I realized, I said why did you put number seven where that’s the real passion instead of putting it at the top?
And then I realized most of the women I work with are so afraid that what they really want will never happen that they bury it in the passion list so I now go to the bottom half with a great deal of curiosity to see what women write. Because what they write for the bottom half, meaning like 5 through 10, is typically going to have one of them that in their heart is so important they’re afraid to articulate it because if they articulate it and don’t have it will break their heart.
>>JOEL: Yes, you know, you’re absolutely right. I think that they let their guard down once they list what they think they’re supposed to list.
>>JOEL: For number one, number two, number three and they let their guard down and they are maybe feel a little bit more free to be themselves and at the bottom of the list, as you’re pointing out, that then they’re writing some things that are really meaningful.
>>LANCE: That’s what, man, that’s why to me—like for instance, you’ve got a book you were just telling me about which I think is really important. I think people, I think people need to really go back and revisit this subject because passion is something which evolves as you go through process events.
>>LANCE: Process events is the language we use to describe the journey that we experience in life where pain or challenges or chapters of overcoming are actually working to define and refine the next phase of our calling.
>>LANCE: So we need to periodically go back and revisit what we thought was our passion and our assignment in light of a present update. And you’ve got some steps in your book you were telling me about that I think people need to read. Like what would they be? Like right now, anything come to mind in terms of our conversation?
>>JOEL: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking, too. You know, a lot of times people’s passions aren’t necessarily things that they chase or that they run after. A lot of times people’s passions are chasing them and I’ll give you a perfect example of.
I had a singer on my show and he sings for, let’s see, Capital Records; lives in Nashville. And, of course, he went to college; went the traditional route; got married; put on a suit; went to the office; punched a time clock. But he, he was miserable. His dad—he worked for his death—his dad saw that he was just incomplete.
So his dad said, Walker, you’ve got to do something else. And in the course of his life he realized that no matter where he went he ended up—he always found the music; his love for music. He always found the music and I pushed him on that. I said Walker did you find the music or did the music find you? And he said Joel, the music sounds me.
And his quote was I couldn’t outrun the music. It was chasing him. He just had to slow down enough to let it capture him and now he’s in Nashville. He just had a big performance just the other day at one of the, one of the hotspots in Nashville. And he is on fire pursuing his passion. Go ahead.
>>LANCE: Yeah, you just remind me of—I remember years ago a woman who started me off in this journey was named Mary Crumb and she had a question that anyone could ask that would help them qualify what their calling and gifting and passion and purpose would be. And here was the question: what do people come to you for most?
>>LANCE: So, and then I said, well, wait a second. She said they either come to you for something you do or something you say. Something you communicate; some feedback you give.
And I said, wait a second, now that goes right to what the Bible says about where Peter talks about gifts and they categorized them in two groups: if any man speak, let him speak as an oracle of God; if any man serve, let him serve with the ability that God giveth. In other words, whatever your technical competency is from surgery to like your wife as, you know, a master like dentist, and you with your blog and stuff that you’re doing—whatever your competency is is how you serve or whatever you say, like I’m more of a oracle gift, so I communicate ideas that can be written, videotaped, coached or whatever, but what people come to you for is chasing you and telling you.
So sometimes we’re in pursuit what God wants us to do, we’re not even realizing what are people coming to us? What are—what’s chasing us in the form of incense and interaction that we’ve never decoded as a key to our own purpose?
>>JOEL: Absolutely. You know, I sometimes point out to people that they see something in you. You may not even see it because it’s just you, but that’s the point. It is just you; people are seeing that. Their discerning that in your spirit and they’re being drawn to you. They see something that you can offer.
>>LANCE: And this is for men and women.
>> JOEL: Yes.
>>LANCE: I mean this is— I’m telling you, this is—all this stuff is just as relevant. That, you know, and the number one reason why people, Christians, are confused over hearing God’s voice is the same reason: because God’s speaking to your spirits. Romans says: His spirit bears witness with my spirit. So God’s not talking to your head. If He did, it would be an external audio channel like we’re talking on a podcast and you’d hear a voice in your ear; very seldom, may never happen.
For you to be led by the Spirit, He speaks to your spirit. And here’s the point your spirit sounds like you because it is you so your voice in your spirit is communicating what the Father is saying. So, if your voice has a certain sound it’s going to be the way Father is speaking through you, to you. Your spirit, literally, is the channel that, in which the spirit of God is communicating. So we don’t hear a separate voice; we hear His voice in a very familiar part of us.
The key is separating soul from spirit; separating our emotional needs and drivers from our more sanctified assignments. So there is this reality that the same passion that may make me want to be an Academy award actor can also be a lust that needs to be sanctified for fame or glory or recognition. And that goes through the whole subject of emotional drivers we’ll get into in another, you know, time we talk.
>>LANCE: But, but there is a sanctifying that comes to passion. The problem is we kill passion in the pursuit of sanctifying it rather than affirming what’s real by purifying or refining it. What we need to do is refine passion, not kill it.
>>JOEL: Okay, yeah, unpack that a little bit more, Dr. Lance, if you would please. That’s such an important…
>>LANCE: Yes, it is because all human beings have needs.
>>LANCE: And so if you, you know, and these are the emotional drivers of life. If you’re highly—if you’re gifted in the area of being driven by a desire for significance, God made you to be significant.
>>LANCE: And so like when a little child comes up to you with a drawing, you know, like one friend of mine said he may have Picasso, he may have Rembrandts, he may have, he may have priceless artwork in a gallery, but the one picture he’s got on his refrigerator for everyone to see is his kid’s or his grandkid’s crayon drawing of grandpa or daddy and mommy because it means more to him than the Rembrandts because it’s coming out of his own family; his own loins.
So there’s a sense in which we have to appreciate that our driver for significance is a beautiful thing, but then we have to subordinate that to a higher calling.
So for instance I dated, once, the casting director for Saturday Night Live. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be in comedy and some of my stuff is hysterical. But the reality is it was not the direction God wanted my gift in. And it was crushing me to say no to opportunity in theater because I felt the Lord said this isn’t for you right now. This isn’t what I want you to do, but I was called to be a voice.
I couldn’t have the voice I’ve got now had I pursued that significance itch through the wrong channel, earlier. So, in a sense what God does is He sanctifies the ways in which we execute our passion. What would be terrible would be for me to say I shouldn’t have a yearning to be heard or seen because that’s not Christian because the moment I do that I annihilate the call of God in an effort to be sanctified.
>>JOEL: One of the very first questions that I ask people when we just get started in the coaching process is as you grow in age, wisdom and maturity, do you become more of who you are—grow more to your own skin and gifts—or do you become this other person at age 30, 40, 50? And that makes for some interesting coaching conversations.
And really what people finally admit out loud is gosh, we, we generally grow more into our own skin. We become more of the person who God created us to be. And that is empowering because people then turn the corner and they start to realize, well, wait a minute if that is true, then everything I need is right here.
And often times I give them this piece of advice and it’s very powerful. I say if you really want the coaching process to work for you, do two things: surrender to who you are and surrender to who you are not. And, collectively, I hear people exhale every time because then they realize like ah, you mean I don’t have to fight with this person I’ve been told that I should be. And sometimes it’s by well-meaning people.
>>LANCE: Absolutely and you know what’s coming to my mind is a picture like a pyramid; the closer you get to the top the smaller and smaller the radius, but the more concentrated it is to the point where it can penetrate something.
So what happens in life, as you mature God brings greater and greater definition by elimination. So what happens is certain things, certain people, certain seasons of life have to be cut off, moved on from, separated from, so that you’re narrowing your focus on what you do best. Your narrowing your focus on who you are, but it’s in that narrow path that you find the greatest power for expression.
So the, you know, so John the Baptist, by the time he was ready to speak it was the voice of one crying. As it’s been preached a lot, but it’s true, when you don’t have your voice, you become the echo of what other people tell you you’re supposed to be. And whenever you’re an echo, you are less authentic than who you are. And so, when you are who you really are and you hit that point when you’re content to be who you really are and to do what you really good at and acknowledge—so they came to him and they said are you the prophet or are you the Christ? And he said no.
What’s funny is he said no, I’m not. He actually was the prophet, but he really didn’t care about fulfilling other people’s definitions of destiny. He was committed to articulating what the Father was telling him to say. And being the voice he dominated every other voice. And it’ll happen for believers, too. When you become the voice God gave you, you will dominate the arena that you’re in.
>>JOEL: Wow, I’m going to have to listen to our conversation a few times and then review my notes, Dr. Lance, because a wealth of information. And what’s the next thing that people can do? What’s the next step so people can take this information and take action on it, immediately? What do you think?
>>LANCE: I’ve been, I’ve been thinking about that while we’ve been talking and more and more my mind goes t—our staff meets with me and they frequently tell me what people are asking for and what they’re responding to that I’m doing in training. And I’m often amazed that it’s not something which I was aware of so here’s what I’m going to do.
I’ve got my next gen consulting coach, Lance Learning Group has two generations. I’ve got my generation and then I have the 18 to 30-year-old generation because I really believe part of our legacy as moms and dads in the kingdom is to transfer to the next generation a better game than we have; let’s get these lessons down and hand them off so they can do them better than us.
So, for our children, for those people that are listening that have sons and daughters, I want you to hear his voice. Jonathan Wales from the UK, Southampton, he’s working with me as someone who I’m training for the next generation, but they’re actually brilliant; and they, you know, the next Gen gets it.
So he’s got all the materials and I’m going to ask him to look at our—right now give you guys some feedback as to what he thinks would be the best product that we can make a massive discount on so that folks that are interested in this broadcast can take action. Jonathan, come on over.
>>JONATHAN: Wow, what a powerful discussion.
>>JOEL: Oh, my goodness, you know, Dr. Lance, I’ll be honest with you, I was not prepared for what was being covered today. So thank you, Dr. Lance, for coming over; and, Jonathan, thanks for coming over with him.
>>JONATHAN: Yeah, you’re welcome. Yeah, I have to say, Lance…
>>JOEL: A little bit closer.
>>JONATHAN: I think, probably the most valuable take away I’ve had from working with you and being a part of your staff has been how you’ve helped me crystallize, get real crystal clear out my passion. So now, no matter what job I go into after this or whatever I do with my life I am so set on my passions that I can move and focus towards them.
>>JOEL: Fantastic. Well, what can we do for the people that are tuning in to make Dr. Lance’s material available?
>>JONATHAN: Okay, well, the most powerful thing in our life training events that I’ve seen has been, like Lance said earlier in the podcast, he brings people up on stage and he does this miracle makeover, and it’s incredible seeing the — almost seeing their minds being unlocked and freed to understand what their true passion is.
And so what we’ve actually made available is a recording of one of those $2500 training events, but we’ve created—and I work a lot with the next generation and so it’s something that I often hear people in the event say is I wish I’d learned this 20 years ago. So that’s why we made it available to the next gen.
But, today, we’re going to do just for this group of listeners is we’re going to put together a recording of this—it’s a 20 minute recording of Lance taking somebody through this passion process.
>> JOEL: Okay.
>> JONATHAN: And he literally helps a 23-year-old girl get clear on what her passions are. And we’ve combined it with a PDF of some reading material you can go through; and actually, Joel, I want you to share a little bit about there’s a new e-book I believe you’ve just come out with?
>>JOEL: Yes, and thank you for asking me about that. It’s a powerful e-book: Passion: Four Places You Forgot to Look. And it gives people four points of how they can really get in touch with their passion. And it combines some of what I’ve learned and what I’ve discovered from some of the clients that I’ve worked with. And actually gives their examples so there’s audio podcasts that are involved, also, in the e-book. And it’s a very, very powerful tool to help people look at passion and look at their passion in a completely different way. So I’m really excited about that. Passion: Four Places You Forgot to Look.
>>JONATHAN: Okay, well what we’re going to do today, then, is we’ve got this 20 minute video module of Lance doing some training, we’ve got a PDF, we’ve got your e-book which includes podcasts as well. So we’re going to put all of that together for one product just for this group of listeners today. And so, I believe we can go to it’s fourpointscoaching.com/Lance…
>>JOEL: Fourpointscoaching.com/Lance, absolutely.
>>JONATHAN: Okay, and for just $24.95, for just for this group of listeners were going to make this available. So don’t miss out on that irresistible offer. You’re probably a your computer right now so go to the website right now and grab it.
>>JOEL: Fourpointscoaching.com/Lance, a great product. Dr. Lance, thank you so much for coming over.
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Jonathan, it was a pleasure to meet you. And I don’t know about you, but I am learning a ton from Dr. Lance. We are so excited that he was able to stop by the studio.
Coming up next week, part two of our conversation.
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