THE OPEN LOUNGE PODCAST PRESENTS
EPISODE 107: TEXTUAL HEARING
with Alex Laferriere, Steve DiTullio, and Brandon Vogel
May 5, 2012
Transcript provided by:
Speech Text Access LLC
>> ALEX: Open Lounge is a proud member of
the Podsmiths network.
>> STEVE: Subscribe to this show and more
>> BRANDON: On today’s episode of Open
>> ALEX: I don’t know where filmmaking is
going as far as the epics are concerned.
>> BRANDON: And then:
>> STEVE: For me personally this guy was
like a hero of mine as a kid.
>> BRANDON: Welcome to Open Lounge.
>> STEVE: Where the glasses are chilled,
the drinks are poured, and the seats are warm.
>> ALEX: I’m Alex.
>> STEVE: I’m Steve.
>> BRANDON: And Brandon is here too.
>> ALEX: We’re recording at the G Two
Seven Lounge where we come every week to
discuss topics ranging from film to philosophy.
>> BRANDON: Won’t you join us?
>> ALEX: Steve, this going to be an
interesting episode because this is actually
going to go somewhere further than our website.
We are going to get this transcribed. Yes,
I’ve been looking into a transcription service.
>> STEVE: You’ve been looking into
that — this has been a pet project of yours
for little while.
>> ALEX: Yeah, and this has recently come
around, thanks to Karen online that I’ve been
talking to, she does her own Twitter work and
it’s great seeing her out there and she
recommended a transcription service to
basically listen to our podcast and put it into
a text format so it’s like this weird —
>> STEVE: Why is she doing this?
>> ALEX: Because, well, I’m talking to
this one guy Bill who says it’s like — it
would be great to have podcasts transcribed so
the deaf audience — the thirty six million
people out there — could actually partake as
an audience, so I was like, that’s kind of
brilliant, not to mention it could be made into
a book as well, to have it into a text format,
to have it as a blog.
>> STEVE: Sure, it’s just that that’s
just a lot of work.
>> ALEX: I think it’s automated, it’s
like Dragon speech.
>> STEVE: Oh boy, that’s going to be
funny in and of itself.
>> ALEX: Why?
>> STEVE: Because I don’t think those
things work that well.
>> ALEX: You don’t think the machine will
do it right?
>> STEVE: Probably not.
>> ALEX: Why wouldn’t it?
>> STEVE: Because there have been times
when I’ve screamed so loud that words have not
come out properly, so just on the off chance
that that happens again sometime within the
next ten minutes —
>> ALEX: You’re a yeller.
>> STEVE: I am a yeller, and I sometimes
yell incoherently, so I guess I’ll have to
watch my speech this time around.
>> ALEX: We all have to, all those past
episodes, oh, no one — my dad’s not going to
hear this, now it’s like —
>> STEVE: Now he will.
>> ALEX: If all the episodes get chosen.
>> STEVE: That would be a hell of a lot
>> ALEX: To go back and do a whole —
>> STEVE: Oh god, yeah.
>> ALEX: It would be kind of cool.
>> STEVE: It would be phenomenal. It
would be awesome.
>> ALEX: The journals of Steve and Alex.
>> STEVE: It would be great, it just
would be a lot of eff’in work.
>> ALEX: I understand, it’s just sort of
weird because like we’ve been covering a lot of
stuff in our own lives, we’ve kind of gotten
away for a little bit and I wanted to use this
as a platform to kind of talk to an audience
that we’ve been building with Dine & Sign, and
>> STEVE: I’m totally game for it,
just — it’s Karen, right?
>> ALEX: Right.
>> STEVE: Karen, be prepared when I break
the system, that’s all. Have a contingency
>> ALEX: Bill is the guy I’m talking to.
>> STEVE: Have a contingency plan.
>> ALEX: This is coming at you.
>> STEVE: Adjust your microphone volume
>> ALEX: Dine & Sign been taking this
audience, building an audience, and kind of
people who are enjoying watching me and my dad
and talking on the web and doing a show which
is kind of weird, and now I would love to tap
into that audience base and ask them what was
on their minds as far as like over the next
couple of months.
I have this plan in my mind that something
was going to happen, a competition of sorts in
which I’m going to ask my father, you know,
it’s the summertime, blockbusters, you know,
people go see movies in the summer, kind of a
thing if I do say so. Avengers hit yesterday
if you want to get some topical information.
>> STEVE: Yes, I haven’t seen it though.
It’s a yes or no. Have you seen it?
>> ALEX: No.
>> STEVE: Move on. Neither of us have
seen it. We can’t talk about it.
>> ALEX: But I feel like I can’t get away
from it. There’s advertisements everywhere on
Spotify, and I was at the Apple store the other
day and there was the most epic ad on Spotify.
>> STEVE: This has the potential to be a
modern-day Jaws in the sense that this will
change the way movies are made for years to
come, this is the first time this massive
continuities have been built up, and word on
the street is Marvel continues — has a plan to
continue to do this, so there is a very real
possibility that this will be the future of
moviegoing, where this will be how they get
people to come in where if you’ve got a cop, a
cop drama, a buddy cop movie you’re going to
make, there are the cops that are running
around trying to save people in the Avengers
movie and now you’re branching out further, and
the possibilities for this are big. There’s a
lot of money riding on this one so you’re going
to see it everywhere.
>> ALEX: And I think that’s fascinating
because as far as filmmaking and cinematography
is concerned, I don’t know if the lines can be
pushed any more, like I’ve looked at the
trailers and I’ve looked at the film that’s
coming out and it’s like, this is visually
stimulating overload. I was just watching E.T.
before I came into the lounge and I noticed
something. It’s so soft and slow as far as
filmmaking is concerned.
>> STEVE: Different era.
>> ALEX: And that’s when I realized, holy
shit, we are in this ADD world of boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom.
>> STEVE: Shit’s happening all over the
>> ALEX: Our summer blockbusters just
have to be summer blockbusters, like these huge
epics from Transformers, to now the Avengers
that’s coming out, and like there were comic
book movies last year. I remember we were
talking about, I think the only movie I was
going to see last year was Captain America.
Have not seen it.
>> STEVE: I still haven’t seen it either.
I want to see Cap and Thor before I go see the
>> ALEX: That’s the whole thing with
these movies is you chain them up, you know,
combo, which makes sense, it’s just I’ve been
— I don’t know where filmmaking is going as
far as the epics are concerned and you talk
about how it’s going to change the industry, I
think it’s just like it’s hyper accentuating
the industry to the point where projects have
to get bigger and bigger.
>> STEVE: I don’t think projects
necessarily have to get bigger and bigger,
you’re going to probably be working — you’re
talking about studios that are working on
multiple projects at a time anyway so now you
just merge the projects together in some way,
shape, or form. Picture the — you know, some
of the detectives who are working in the
department, the same department as the guys who
are investigating the Saw murders are the buddy
It’s not hard, but you give them a plug,
you give them a small role in a different movie
and then they’re going to branch off. TV’s
been doing this forever. It will be the first
time that movies to my knowledge, the first
time that movies will have tried to do that.
>> ALEX: I know, if we threw a little bit
of research on it — we should probably give a
shout out over to Jeff Burns over at the
Everything Film Show, maybe they can actually
get something specific.
>> STEVE: Well, I have done a little
research on this.
>> ALEX: On the continuity of movies?
>> STEVE: Yes. To the best of my
knowledge, this is the first time it’s happened
like this at least.
>> ALEX: Drop some science.
>> STEVE: No, that was it.
>> ALEX: This instance in time is the
>> STEVE: Yes.
>> ALEX: I don’t know if somewhere in the
80’s there were some movies that came out
that were like intertwined or related in some
>> STEVE: Nothing on this type of a
>> ALEX: Where they’re drawing from is
pop-culture threads that have been sown over
time, and I think that’s half the benefit is
just we’re entering an age in which people can
really become fan boys of a history or of a
heritage, whether it’s comic books, which have
a deeply rooted history and now the new leaf
fan boy interest, gaming — and gaming is
huge — and I was thinking about a lot of
things that I’ve kind of left behind as far as
my interest in Dungeons & Dragons and gaming
and video games in general and table top and
moving into this idea of what sort of niche
audience would we be interested in making a
story for, if I were to make the gamers —
going into our own personal project
development, there are a couple stories I would
want to produce and right now and one them
happens to be Dine & Sign, which, is this a
deaf audience we’re going towards?
I don’t know, because now we have this
podcast which we’re getting transcribed. I
think it’s kind of cool, we’re constantly
feeding this audience with different forms of
entertainment that don’t normally go their way.
And I was talking with someone earlier at the
meeting at Newton that I had where the most
visually entertaining platform, YouTube, does
not really cater to the deaf world the way Dine
& Sign does.
>> STEVE: Nothing does, though.
>> ALEX: Which is unfortunate. It’s
something I’ve never really thought about, and
how it’s like that’s a very target niche
audience that now can be communicated to.
>> STEVE: Yeah.
>> ALEX: Do you watch any Switched At
Birth? Have you heard about Switched At Birth?
>> STEVE: No.
>> ALEX: It’s a big ABC Family show that
I see get talked about in the deaf community
like through Facebook and Twitter because it’s
about a deaf child being raised, but you know,
these two kids were switched at birth and the
deaf kid is in this other family that
theoretically shouldn’t have a deaf kid, and I
was just thinking about how yeah, there’s not
really a big deaf thread in pop culture. It’s
always just like an add-on or maybe a
>> STEVE: Yeah, it really isn’t. This is
going to get a little on the controversial side
but oh well, I’ve never been afraid of a fight.
>> ALEX: Exactly, because now —
>> STEVE: You don’t broadcast handicaps.
In the mainstream eye, deaf is a handicap. I
understand that there’s a culture around it, I
understand that this isn’t like a clinical
thing, but ultimately you are viewed as having
a handicap in society by not having functioning
>> ALEX: Right. The meeting at Newton I
had mentioned that Glee is like the first TV
show in which there is a televised person in a
wheelchair and we kind of went really, we
thought about it and he said, okay, maybe
Sesame Street did it in like 1973. Check in
the box, move on. So I was like, okay, yeah,
there’s never really been like a wheelchair
>> STEVE: To be fair, in those backyard
sports games, there’s always the kid in a
wheelchair and I always picked him because he
>> ALEX: In video games?
>> STEVE: Oh, absolutely. The backyard
baseball, backyard football, backyard
>> ALEX: There’s always some kid in a
wheelchair? Wicked high speed score?
>> STEVE: It’s the same cast of kids for
all these different games. Did you never play
these as a kid?
>> ALEX: No. I hate sports games.
>> STEVE: Holy shit. They’re not really
sports games, though. They’re really not.
>> ALEX: It’s like Megaman soccer.
>> STEVE: This is like — you picked a
couple of football players who as kids — I
think the football one was like Drew Bledsoe,
Jerry Rice, big names —
>> ALEX: You had these giant heads on
these little bodies.
>> STEVE: Yeah, little tiny guys and then
you had kids who were playing with them and I
would always pick the same basically like ten
guys for each of the teams and the kid in the
wheelchair was always one of them because I
always liked it.
>> ALEX: I don’t discriminate.
>> STEVE: That was immediately where my
mind was, you know, well, you know what? No.
For television probably, but yes, going back to
the main point, yes, handicaps are usually not
broadcast into the mainstream. We could really
go so far as to say it’s only been recently
that race has kind of become —
>> ALEX: A tool to be utilized in
>> STEVE: Honestly, it’s to the point now
where you have to have a certain race mix for a
certain image to make sure that you’re not
being too stereotypical.
>> ALEX: Which is ironic because I did
some research on the Aunt Jemima logo back in
college, and the notion that some of their
advertisement campaigns were people in
blackface going around and like role-playing
Aunt Jemima and that was totally acceptable,
and that was totally like as if a caricature at
a sports arena was walking around waving at
everyone and people were like, that’s
fucking — what is that, the Red Sox one?
That’s awful of me that I don’t know. Wally?
>> STEVE: Wally.
>> ALEX: Which is a weird mascot for the
Red Sox, have no idea why that —
>> STEVE: Because the green monster, the
great green wall —
>> ALEX: So the big green monster is this
fat, frumpy, Wally the fucking crazy, Doctor
>> STEVE: No, Wally is — it’s a green
monster and the park is known for having a
green monster wall.
>> ALEX: No, I agree with the green
monster. It just doesn’t look like a monster.
>> STEVE: He looks a Sesame Street
>> ALEX: Yeah, that’s not really like a
monster like the Worcester — the Ice Cats. He
looked like a mean Ice Cat. I liked him
>> STEVE: Worcester Ice Cats, what are
you talking about?
>> ALEX: The hockey team.
>> STEVE: Dude, the Sharks.
>> ALEX: They used to be the Ice Cats.
I’m saying before, when I saw a mascot, I’d
like to see an aggressive mascot.
>> STEVE: Talking sports with you is like
pulling teeth, it really is.
>> ALEX: I know, I’m talking about the
lamest thing about sports in general.
>> STEVE: You just don’t — this is like
me trying to — when we were talking to — who
is the dude from Green Ronin publishing, the
gentleman’s name at JanCom? he was talking
about the differences between a D6 and a D10
and how they revolutionized the game and I was
just kind of sitting there like, oh my God, I
am out of my element.
>> ALEX: It’s funny because we have so
many niche categories in our world.
>> STEVE: By the way, not that he was in
any way, shape — oh god, I want to say it was
>> ALEX: Chris Purdy is — in my mind,
but — I saw him on Twitter at some point —
Perkins — Green Ronin Publishing.
>> STEVE: We gave him the proper plug.
>> ALEX: The business plug.
>> STEVE: Not that any of that was like
at all not interesting, we were just —
>> ALEX: This is when you talk poker.
>> STEVE: I’m absorbing so much now I
have nothing to add to this conversation. I
don’t know what he’s talking about.
>> ALEX: The thing about all the
different worlds, once again going back the
Newton meeting that’s been on my mind all day,
talking about niches and what kind of show or
storytelling can you develop — and you are
talking about doing stuff for the poker world,
you’ve always said there’s not a lot of content
for the poker world.
>> STEVE: There is not, and the stuff
that’s there is pretty bare-bones.
>> ALEX: And it’s like tapping into the
well of making a story for a specific
community, like what would the deaf community
want to see from someone like me? I know
there’s a proper way to approach this, but to
go back, you know, working stiffs is a project
that I want to tell in a web series format,
what does that look like?
>> STEVE: I’m okay doing something where
we have a character who is deaf and that
becomes like a part of the plot. That’s not —
like let’s pull the curtain back, that’s not a
bad idea. When you brought that up I said
okay, he’s thinking. I like that. That’s not
>> ALEX: I don’t want to say it’s
exploitive but I want to relate to a group of
>> STEVE: It’s not exploitative to do
things like that. It’s just not. You’re an
entertainer, you have to show people what they
want, otherwise they’re not going to watch.
Now, you’re not necessarily kowtowing to this
group of people, but at the same time you’ve
got to give them a reason to keep watching,
otherwise they’re not going to and that’s kind
of the nature of the beast.
You can go too far in the other direction,
just be like everybody’s deaf, ooh ah ah ah, ah
ah, and it’s wrong, that would be exploitative,
but you can’t talk any more so it was kind of
>> ALEX: Another form of communication.
>> STEVE: I apologize to every deaf
person in the world who just read that. The
bottom line is see, Dragon speech, how is
Dragon speech going to be like ooh, ah ah ah?
>> ALEX: They’ll figure it out. This is
an experiment, because I don’t know of any
other deaf podcast out there. I haven’t done
the research for it. Talk about a man of
duality, I do live in two worlds.
>> STEVE: You talk about living in
duality, I just gave you shit about it because
I think there’s more than a duality.
>> ALEX: This is maybe a point of
discussion for people, but going back on that
point of me living in two worlds, the hearing
world and the deaf world, thinking about how to
bridge those two is like always on my mind of
how to tell a good story that would placate one
audience without alienating another, and I
understand, you know it’s like once you become
known for something either online or in life —
earlier today we were talking about Rachel Ray,
how she is like the thirty-minute chef, that’s
all she’s known for in the world of — the
>> STEVE: Not even close.
>> ALEX: Thirty-minute chef?
>> STEVE: She’s had a talk show going for
about ten years now.
>> ALEX: She’ll only be — every one of
her shows has something to do with cooking,
>> STEVE: No, she has a talk show. She
is a fucking Oprah clone.
>> ALEX: What?
>> STEVE: She’s never been a cook.
That’s the whole point. She’s just one of the
first people who is on the food network
channel. She’s not a chef. She’s not trained
as a chef, she doesn’t know how to cook — not
know how to cook, you know what I mean, like
culinary school wise. She does not know those
things, she was never taught those things in a
school setting. She had the thirty-minute
meals show, she had the forty dollars a day
show where she would go to these different
restaurants and spend forty bucks a day on a
>> ALEX: Thirty minutes a meal, forty
dollars a day.
>> STEVE: No, thirty-minute meals, yeah,
that was the cooking show. She’s evolved to
the point where she has her own talk show.
>> ALEX: Fifty bucks a night.
>> STEVE: No.
>> ALEX: That’s the name of the talk
>> STEVE: No, she has a talk show. I
think it’s just “Rachel” or something like
>> ALEX: Just “Rachel.” No, but really,
with the apostrophe?
>> STEVE: No, she has an Oprah show now.
That’s what she is. She’s that kind of person.
>> ALEX: Oprah went up there by stepping
down and retiring. “Oh yeah, you’re gonna be
better than me? I retire.”
>> STEVE: Yeah, maybe.
>> ALEX: Just that one-uppance of —
>> STEVE: Maybe, except for the fact that
now Oprah has her own network.
>> ALEX: So now she becomes a figure,
she’s leaving a legacy of a spirit rather than
an actual image of her face. It’s great.
She’s a powerful lady, and she’s a
rags-to-riches story, I think, right? We buy
that up, don’t we?
>> STEVE: She’s a poor woman in Chicago.
>> ALEX: And all of a sudden, boom. A
black woman at that.
>> STEVE: She is fucking loaded.
>> ALEX: Ted Turner type. Talk about
numbers losing their meaning.
>> STEVE: She is fucking loaded. Like
unbelievable, the command that she has and the
following that she has, everything.
>> ALEX: I try to wrap my head around
that, especially being a man of social media,
and how everything has a number to it that is
easily accessible to the public. Like once I
started realizing that on YouTube having
100,000 views per week is a pretty big deal.
Having five million views like Ray William
Johnson of Equals Three, that unbelievable
power to think of some dude with a laptop,
uploading Dine & Sign from Harvard University
for three weeks now. And that means something.
Now I understand a lot of those views could be
thirteen-year-old kids, but —
>> STEVE: Who cares at that point?
>> ALEX: It’s still advertisement, right?
>> STEVE: I do have — not to sidetrack
this — you sent me a text earlier in the week,
quote, remind me about playing a deaf guy
pouring oil with dramatic music and my dad
>> ALEX: So essentially with this summer
shorts blockbuster, I thought of this one short
that I, at the very least want to try to do in
some shape or form. There’s a couple things I
want to accomplish this summer.
>> STEVE: I’d really be okay with filming
shit, because that’s what I signed up for.
>> ALEX: What I described there is the
story. That is the script. We are going to
get together on a day and just have a little
sketch, there are two lines of dialogue —
>> STEVE: Is this a Helen Keller scene,
is this what it was? [yelling] Again, deaf
people, I apologize.
>> ALEX: It was just like, there was a
bottle of olive oil that was empty, it was a
nice, long-necked one I like to use and we had
a rinky-dink shahs bottle with olive oil and I
wanted to transfer the two.
>> STEVE: You wanted to make it look like
you had classy olive oil?
>> ALEX: Exactly, the aesthetics of the
oil. And I was just like, okay, time to pour
this, and I was just like, and I was like,
okay, got to focus on this now, and I just
imagined — imagine there was this scene of
this, like, crowd and for some reason it was
like competition pouring and there’s this team
that always wins and it’s just like, the secret
weapon, it’s this guy who is deaf just because
he is like, he is just focusing in on the
pouring of the oil and you can’t hear the crowd
like cheering him on so he just has this zen
moment of, I will not spill, because obviously
in competition pouring, you can’t. It’s this
cute little three-minute — you show an image,
like a competition point, so you rapid-fire
storytelling, and then it’s just this
ridiculous, like these two people are like, how
is he doing this?
And it’s because he’s deaf. I wanted to
get like really epic shots, take photos of
things, and use our eyes. And it’s a simple
setup as far as filmmaking is concerned, like
maybe we just need a room and that’s why I was
looking at E.T., of like there’s not a lot of
stuff going on here. A lot of these interior
shots can be done in a studio, and you set up
lights and you build it.
>> STEVE: That might be a bad example for
“There’s not a whole lot going on there,” but I
know what you mean. I know what the point is.
This is not as Herculean as —
>> ALEX: I make it out to be.
>> STEVE: That is something that is
achievable, especially with modern convenience.
>> ALEX: Right. Now kind of tying
everything together with that one scene, would
that be a funny like sketch? Would people be
interested in hearing about or seeing about
that? What is the point of doing that sketch?
Well, I don’t know, as a filmmaker I think it
would be cool to do dramatically, but now going
back again to the Avengers, of how things are
being ramped up, because things are becoming
Herculean from that standpoint of — technology
is allowing things to move a lot quicker and
faster so half of the ’80s appeal movies was
a fact that they could move the camera around a
little bit better.
>> STEVE: People didn’t understand the
language of film back then though. There was a
completely different language of, you have to
do these things, otherwise your audience is
just going to be lost. Now your audience —
>> ALEX: Way back in the ’20s and
>> STEVE: I think the ’80s is pretty
>> ALEX: It starts to — it develops.
>> STEVE: There’s some camera movement,
but it’s now developed to a point where your
audience is smart enough that you can pull out
some zany tricks and the suspension of this
belief won’t go like [sound effect] on you.
>> ALEX: Sometimes today I go cross-eyed
watching modern-day movies. Just action going
on, it’s like [yelling] —
>> STEVE: I’ve never had that problem,
although I will say I’m liking movies like the
Transformers less and less.
>> ALEX: As you grow older?
>> STEVE: More recently, but I will say
as I grow older.
>> ALEX: Would you consider E.T. a kids’
>> STEVE: Yes.
>> ALEX: Is it a scary kids’ movie?
>> STEVE: Yes.
>> ALEX: Yeah, because I recall E.T. from
the past as being this scary movie.
>> STEVE: For a little kid — not
necessarily scary, but as a little kid you’re
not equipped to handle emotion and there was a
lot of emotions E.T. is evoking from you, so
your natural reaction as a child is to be
frightened when you don’t really know what else
to do. As a human being, that’s kind of — you
don’t know what else to do, you kind of get
>> ALEX: You just kind of panic and
there’s yelling and screaming and then there’s
like this alien creature and they’re linked and
they’re riding through the forest, like I just
remember as a kid recalling certain pieces and
it just being a scary movie and only seeing
certain scenes like on TV, like, you know,
flicking through the channels and maybe
watching fifteen minutes and being like, I have
no context of what is going on, this is fucking
frightening, moving on, so again tonight was —
I still haven’t seen it in its entirety from
start to finish because sometimes I find that
the storyline of E.T. is complex, there’s a lot
going on, going back to this forest, and I love
the scenes where, “It’s working,” it’s like, I
guess it’s working, kid, I’ll take your word
for it. This machine that is going [sound
effects] and like moving a fork, a very rude
Goldberg machine, and it’s like, “I’ll take
your word for it.”
>> STEVE: “I’m not sure know how you knew
that, but” —
>> ALEX: But yeah. “Thanks, buddy.” So
that’s why I was saying that movies have
actually escalated because now we have the
comic book movies that are just —
>> STEVE: That’s coming from a culture
where you had to have this absolutely
obscure — not obscure, outlandish artwork,
where comic books have always been an
incredibly visual medium, well duh, in other
news, rain makes you wet — so now when you put
that on a screen, that’s why comic book movies
haven’t really always done that well because
you’ve really only been able to do basic stuff
cinematically compared to what you can do
drawing on a piece of paper and what your
audience will, like, go for.
So now you can finally do those types of
things in cinema with movies like Thor, Captain
America, The Avengers, the Ironman movies —
supposedly there’s an I-Man 3 coming out soon
which will lead in to more, larger universe
movies which —
>> ALEX: Because Iron Man chains up with
other things, right? See, that’s the other
thing. I don’t even — remember other
things — I enjoy comic books more reading the
Wikipedia articles than I do the actual comic
>> STEVE: It’s kind of a similar thing.
>> ALEX: That sucks, doesn’t it?
>> STEVE: Not really.
>> ALEX: I’m just a top level fucking
geek for this type of stuff.
>> STEVE: There’s only so many hours in
the day, Alex.
>> ALEX: I’ll let those people consume
the comic, and tell me what’s good.
>> STEVE: Now I get the synopses and I’m
okay with that. But I heard the Civil War plot
line was what they were going to try to bring
>> ALEX: Okay. I remember hearing about
that, and it was great, just enough for me to
hear about it.
>> STEVE: Which I believe ends with —
Wolverine’s involved in the Civil War series —
>> ALEX: Somebody dies.
>> STEVE: Captain America dies, I believe
Iron Man kills Captain America. I believe
that’s how it works.
>> ALEX: Really?
>> STEVE: Yes, I believe that’s how it
goes down. I am fairly confident. Spiderman I
know is involved.
>> ALEX: He gets a mask.
>> STEVE: He intentionally gets a mask
which, in the comic world they have all just
gotten rid of, like no, that never happened.
>> ALEX: Because now there’s a split
parallel in the Spiderman world.
>> STEVE: This is why you don’t read
comics though, this is why you kind of listen
>> ALEX: You listen to someone else tell
you the story.
>> STEVE: Where it’s like, cool, someone
else can give me the synopsis. I didn’t have
to read ninety pages to get to that point.
>> ALEX: I’ve discovered a lot of things
that I enjoy recently. I acquired some digital
comics of the old Spiderman just to see what
they look like in PDF form, and I was like,
wow, to sit here and enjoy each image and each
frame as a drawing rather than just read the
bubbles and kind of [sound effects] glance, to
actually appreciate every little thing and take
the time to read a comic book rather than skim
it, people do that and I don’t. That’s an
interesting thing to consume and I’m wondering
if — why people still do that, first of all,
that enjoyment to go to a comic store and buy
the physical comic?
>> STEVE: It’s people who have always
been into it and just kind of perpetuated it,
like the movie Bob, who we’ve talked about on
this show — he is big into comics, and he
mentioned in a couple of them that comics get
really weird with continuities because the guys
who are writing the comics now were the ones
who were reading the comics before and they
like those bigger continuities and all those
characters, and now they want to include them
in their own works and now it just kind of
escalates from there.
>> ALEX: Did you follow any author, any
comic authors or writers?
>> STEVE: I don’t follow comics, period,
story over. I know the big heroes, I know I
was huge into Batman as a kid but Batman to me
was Batman, the animated series.
>> ALEX: The same with Spiderman. I
really enjoyed the animated series a well.
>> STEVE: I like the animated series as
well, Spiderman was another one. My little
brother got really into Spiderman. I got into
Batman. I’m familiar with the Hulk, I’m
familiar with Superman, Wonder Woman, The
Justice League, the cartoon network show many
years later —
>> ALEX: Never watched that.
>> STEVE: I really liked that show a lot.
>> ALEX: Really?
>> STEVE: It was on at night too, it was
a little bit more like, not mature cartoon, but
it was on the early end of —
>> ALEX: Kidsy type of thing?
>> STEVE: It was the early end of the
night. If you look back at Batman, the
animated series, I remember looking back at
that and being genuinely kind of frightened
>> ALEX: It’s a dark cartoon. It’s drawn
on black construction paper for that specific
>> STEVE: It definitely sets a different
tone, a different mood and I remember watching
Mask Of The Phantom, I can’t remember — the
animated movie they did where —
>> ALEX: I remember renting that from
Blockbuster. My father and I, the VHS.
>> STEVE: My father and I went to
theaters to see that.
>> ALEX: Wow. What did he think about
>> STEVE: What did he think about it? I
don’t know. I was really little at the time.
I don’t remember, I was six or seven.
>> ALEX: Did you prompt him to take you
or he was like, I’m going to take you to see
>> STEVE: All I remember from that day
with my father and I went to the movies, my
mother had people over at the house and they
were asking me about the movie afterwards.
That’s all I remember, but I remember my father
was the one who took me. I think my little
brother was a baby and couldn’t go anywhere
yet, so that’s why I went with my father.
>> ALEX: I remember renting it from
Blockbuster and my dad was like, that’s Batman.
Brought it home, put it in, he was like, “It’s
a cartoon?” I was like no, I wanted the actual
movie. I was like, “No, Dad, that’s pretty
cool, it’s a feature-length cartoon, that’s
epic.” He just didn’t get it and he’s like
“Oh, that sucks,” and he just didn’t watch it
and I was like okay, fine, I will enjoy it.
>> STEVE: Okay, screw you.
>> ALEX: It was just cool to see how
comics jumped into long form feature like films
like that, even from that age because I don’t
know what cartoons are doing. I know
Nickelodeon acquired Fred.
>> STEVE: CG and a lot of it.
>> ALEX: Fred made a Nickelodeon movie,
did you know that?
>> STEVE: Yes, I know that. John Cena
was his father.
>> ALEX: That’s the audience that watches
wrestling? The Nickelodeon audience watches
wrestling? The wrestling audience blows me
>> STEVE: Wrestling today is very
different than wrestling was when I was a kid.
When I was a kid, wrestling was catered towards
a much more mature audience. That was that
attitude era where they were like naked chicks
up on the screen dancing in silhouette in the
background and you were seeing like people
getting busted open and bleeding. It was
intense, it was an intense experience.
>> ALEX: Yeah, it was scary.
>> STEVE: And there were like bikini
contests where people were wearing nothing more
than body paint — that’s a big oh my God
moment from wrestling — but now it’s geared
towards little kids largely because John Cena
became as popular as he did and started doing
this kid thing and now he’s wildly popular with
the younger demographic, so the whole program
kinda turned more — it was TV 14 when I was
watching it as a kid. It’s TV PG now.
>> ALEX: TV ratings and stuff, geez.
>> STEVE: But to go back to it, yes.
Probably the Nickelodeon audience now is what
would watch wrestling today as well although
it’s still on in the late hours anyway so it’s
not like little kids are really going to be
able to see it.
>> ALEX: I like to think about different
audiences because this is that episode of niche
>> STEVE: That’s a big one, too.
Wrestling is big.
>> ALEX: It blows my mind. It blows my
>> STEVE: You want to know what the most
popular sport in the country is by far?
>> ALEX: NASCAR?
>> STEVE: NASCAR. By far, it’s not
close. Although I think in past years it’s
become a lot closer between football and
>> ALEX: Amazing. Not that that doesn’t
mean anything, it’s just — to see the dude
walking down the street who —
>> STEVE: People who grew up in the
northeast, you’re just not exposed to this.
We’re just not in areas and learning the
geography of wrestling — because there was
one — we’re in no way shape or form anywhere
near where this stuff was really big.
>> ALEX: And then boom, Internet.
>> STEVE: Yeah, well, it was before the
>> ALEX: It allows people access to this.
Now maybe —
>> STEVE: Someone in Mexico, Japan —
those are huge wrestling markets. I think the
mecca of wrestling is in North Carolina or
something like that, in the United States,
which is like, huh? What? To someone who grew
up in Massachusetts his whole life it’s like,
what the hell is in North Carolina? There’s
nothing in North Carolina.
>> ALEX: So we’ve touched on a lot of
different demographics, a cocktail of different
things, deafness and wrestling and comic books
and gaming and —
>> STEVE: Speaking of cocktails.
>> ALEX: Yes, this is the Open Lounge.
We’re going to grab a quick drink break here
for a second.
>> ALEX: I’m not a football fan.
>> STEVE: No, you’re not.
>> ALEX: But Junior Seau is no longer
>> STEVE: Kind of screwed with my head.
>> ALEX: And we are driving home and I
totally love the idea of radio because it hits
all the right points, you know, little
bite-sized segments that are constantly
repeated throughout the day, so — so if you
happen to catch it at 3 p.m. because you’re
going home from work or you’re outside on your
lunch break, and — you’re going to hear the
news sprinkled throughout the day. So the
Junior Seau thing, I got to hear many different
forms of it from, you know, Junior Seau found
dead in his home, and I was like, why does that
sound so familiar?
>> STEVE: Knowing you’re not a football
>> ALEX: NFL story Junior Seau found
dead, and it’s kind of like oh my God, and I
Wiki’d it as I was driving.
>> STEVE: This would be if — of the same
caliber as — he’s a bigger deal than Teddy
Brewski for sure.
>> ALEX: Really? I think Teddy Brewski
has a local appeal because I’m a Patriots fan,
but in the larger schema of NFL, I don’t know.
>> STEVE: Junior Seau is probably the
biggest star to have ever had this happen to
him from the National Football League by far.
>> ALEX: Had this happen to him? Like
others, like his story, or his death?
>> STEVE: There are other football
players within the last five years who have
taken their own lives because of supposed
damage to the brain and injuries and their
lives not going the way they wanted them to.
There was a gentleman from the Bears who, I
don’t remember the name, I don’t even remember
the position that he played but he shot himself
in the chest with a shotgun and he donated his
brain to doing study, to doing studies of like
brain damage from NFL players from all the hits
and everything because he couldn’t take it
anymore, so he took his own life and said, take
the brain, figure it out, figure out how to
prevent this from happening to other people.
>> ALEX: Wow.
>> STEVE: Yes. Junior Seau is not the
first person to have done this and this is not
the first time he tried to kill himself.
>> ALEX: Well, he said he fell asleep at
the road. Are you talking about that incident?
>> STEVE: Yes, I’m talking about when he
drove over the cliff, but he’s currently no
longer among us, so I’m less inclined to
believe that he fell asleep. At the time I
thought sure, he just fell asleep. I don’t
really believe that anymore.
>> ALEX: That really frightened me.
>> STEVE: Me too.
>> ALEX: Because there was a moment in
which I was driving down the road and so many
thoughts going through my head of, it’s just
like this whelming, looming like angst of life.
I don’t want to use that term a lot but
just that — things and seeing people on their
cell phones, or — I was at a rest stop on
Naspike 90 and seeing like this mother like
wrestling with her two kids and being upset at
her own life, I could recognize that, and then
to hear this guy who I’ve seen play for the
Patriots and wealthy, fit, looks good —
>> STEVE: Here’s a great statistic.
>> ALEX: — take his own life, I was
like, what do I really have to be worried
>> STEVE: Just as a side note, seventy
eight percent — this is data coming straight
from the NFL — seventy eight percent of the
players who graduate — I’ll use that term —
>> ALEX: Retired. I heard about this
>> STEVE: — are either broke, divorced,
financially bankrupt, they have no money, they
have nothing. Seventy eight percent of the
players that played in that league.
Unbelievable. Unbelievable that it’s that
>> ALEX: I saw something like that too
where it’s like two thirds of everyone who
retires from the NFL becomes bankrupt.
>> STEVE: I think they used the term
alumni. I don’t think they said retired
because I think it expanded I think beyond just
the player pool.
>> ALEX: So like coaches and stuff like
>> STEVE: Maybe. I think coaches are
included in this as well. I think. I think it
was staff in general, I’m not sure about that
>> ALEX: That’s interesting. I’d like to
get more specifics on that.
>> STEVE: Belicheck’s divorced. Bill
>> ALEX: Isn’t that crazy?
>> STEVE: That’s just kind of the nature
of the beast.
>> ALEX: Is that because of just sheer
determination to succeed at one particular
>> STEVE: Yeah, I think this really does
just come down to these guys are so devoted to
their craft they probably should not have
gotten married and had these families, and if
their families — when their families came
about, when they got married and they started
planning on having kids, everyone needed to be
aware of the fact that this was what you are
looking forward to.
This was what life was going to be, it
wasn’t just going to suddenly go away. Tom
Coughlin who coached the Giants is going to be
70 this year, or somewhere in that
neighborhood. You can do this for a very long
time in the National Football League. Lou
Belicheck is almost in his 60s. That’s
unbelievable. They’re all older men who —
Sean Payton is young, the Saints head coach.
>> ALEX: The Steelers coach is young too.
>> STEVE: No, well, all right. He’s
actually young. Sean Payton is young and he’s
probably still in like his 50s. He’s a young
coach. He might be 45.
>> ALEX: The Steelers coach, he’s in his
mid-30s. 38 or something.
>> STEVE: They’re players.
>> ALEX: Yeah. He has that spunky —
>> STEVE: There’s another guy who was —
oh no, he just got fired. That does not count.
>> ALEX: That does not count.
>> STEVE: The former coach of the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers whose name is totally escaping
me, but —
>> ALEX: Pulling the threads together of
sheer dedication to the craft, is that a level
of insanity? Is that a level of perfection?
To actually bring up Steve Wazowski — I don’t
know if I’m saying his name right, “The Waz” —
he was from Apple computers, the interview, and
I talked to him a lot and I remember one thing
resonating strong within me was, he said, live
in the middle. I’ve always been a fan of
living in the middle.
So when Steve Jobs is building Apple and
becoming huge, he steps down and obviously took
his money and went away from the limelight of
it all and it just makes me wonder if there is
a grain of truth to that, because there’s a
level of insanity to try to be the top of
something and to have these athletes who push
themselves physically as a person who — focus
on fitness now, yeah, to imagine someone who is
just working hard, this is what they do for a
living and train, and it’s not easy. And it’s
all time, this is the argument we talk about,
it’s all time. That’s all it is, is how do you
want to spend your time.
>> STEVE: You get such a finite window to
do it. Seau got twenty years in the NFL, that
is beyond unbelievable. Twelve years he was a
pro baller. Twelve years he was considered —
for me personally this guy was like a hero of
mine as a kid.
This was one of the first football players
I really knew, because in like sixth and
seventh and eighth grade when I really started
getting into football and really start to
understand the game and the science of the game
and really started to learn about it, he was
one of the faces of the league. He was the
linebacker for the San Diego Chargers and he
was it, he was the guy, he was like a Ray
Lewis-like figure, where everybody knows who
this guy is, everybody in the league. He was
never going to be — to make a modern
comparison — this is going to be lost on
you — he’s more like a Patrick Willis, who is
a star in the league but is never going to be a
guy who is defensive player of the year or up
for like an MVP type of award. He’s not that
kind of guy but he’s phenomenal at what he
does. Seau was that guy for a number of years.
>> ALEX: We hear now of this unfortunate
end. How? What drove him to this point? And
now they talk about — is it a medical
condition of, you know, hits in the head type
>> STEVE: That’s where we’re going to go
>> ALEX: So it’s a physical thing over a
>> STEVE: They’re going to talk about
multiple concussions and head traumas. I’m
less inclined to believe that Seau had a whole
lot of that. Here’s what I think —
>> ALEX: Because the other comparison I
hear is like road rage within the wrestling
industry and spousal abuse.
>> STEVE: A lot of wrestlers that I even
grew up watching are long since dead. Long
>> ALEX: And they weren’t that old.
>> STEVE: Macho Man Randy Savage died
recently. He was in his, I think, 60s at the
oldest. He wasn’t that old.
>> ALEX: He was ripped and out of his
head though. I’m talking about that adrenaline
coursing through his body frequently, whether
it’s steroids or otherwise —
>> STEVE: Which, by the way, I’m not
totally sure a lot of those guys were doing
steroids. I’m on the fence about that one
because I know guys have talked about getting
suspended for it and whatnot, so I’m not sure
how dirty that industry is, but we’re certainly
not talking about a professional — like normal
professional athletics where it is considered
an advantage to take steroids. We’re talking
about people who are just trying to look good
and pull off a show. But back to just —
>> ALEX: Junior Seau?
>> STEVE: It’s bugging me. It really is.
Here’s what I think happened to him: I think
he went through a divorce, he was in the league
for twenty years, that was all he had, he
>> ALEX: Did he retire? Did he step
down? He did.
>> STEVE: A couple of times.
>> ALEX: He came back.
>> STEVE: Belicheck kind of like tapped
him on the shoulder with one of our shitty
defense and said hey, be on the practice
squad — which now, because I know Belicheck,
being an avid Patriots fan — or at least I
perceive him to be some kind of genius — I
know that he saw something being as kind of
wrong with Seau and he was depressed.
He said, all right, you were good for me.
Be like a player coach now. Help show the next
generation, be a part of this. Take that next
step, be that next guy. You can’t be the guy
making the tackle, but show the guy how to make
the tackle. You know what I’m saying?
>> ALEX: Get on him when he makes a bat
and that kind of thing.
>> STEVE: Be that guy. You can still do
that, and I feel like that’s just never really
clicked with Junior and he went through the
divorce and his family life was falling apart,
and he lost — he just can’t do what he’s been
doing for his whole life.
>> ALEX: I think what is a good summation
about this is Rocky 2. No, Rocky 4. When
they’re having that discussion, Apollo Creed,
and Apollo has that burning desire to like be a
warrior and he talks to Rocky about like, we
have to do this, Rocky, it’s in our blood, we
have to fight and he ends up getting killed by
Ivan Drago and it’s like that moment of — I
had resonated with that notion of, some people
just have this burning desire to be a musician,
a boxer, a filmmaker.
>> STEVE: And I think Seau — I think the
problem with that is you can’t — it’s
incredibly difficult to turn off, and I think
Seau couldn’t turn it off and I think that he
decided to — assuming at this time, I’m
assuming it’s a suicide because that’s the only
things that have been mentioned so far — I’m
assuming he hasn’t been killed, because if he’s
been killed this conversation completely
changes but I think he just had enough. He had
just had enough. My life as I have built it to
this point is over, I don’t want to rebuild it,
>> ALEX: That’s where I go to where it’s
like, well, just go play some video games, man,
like go veg in a corner and enjoy what life has
>> STEVE: I agree. I especially agree
having seen his mother with all those
television cameras in front of her having just
heard that her son committed suicide.
>> ALEX: Wait, they jumped her?
>> STEVE: No, she did like a press
conference kind of thing.
>> ALEX: Like a fucking TMZ thing, like a
“Hey, hey, Mrs. Seau”?
>> STEVE: You wanted immediate “My life
is not as bad as I thought it was”? Go watch
the four minutes of her on camera. It’s
>> ALEX: Does she talk about her life?
>> STEVE: She’s speaking in tongues,
she’s so upset. She really is. She’s yelling
at God for half of it. There was like some
heavy shit going on. That’s not cool. The
saddest part of this, Seau has four kids.
>> ALEX: Really?
>> STEVE: Junior Seau has four children
or had four children. I think all girls. Four
>> ALEX: With this one divorced —
>> STEVE: I don’t know, I assume so. I
haven’t heard otherwise, but I don’t know for
certain if that’s the case. He’s got four
>> ALEX: You have something to live for
at that point.
>> STEVE: You had kids. Your life’s not
about you anymore when you have kids, that’s
kind of how it works. Thanks, Mom and Dad.
>> ALEX: We’re coming around Mother’s Day
soon, so that’s a moment to take note.
>> STEVE: Four kids.
>> ALEX: And it’s just a lot of — I’m
making broad generalizations here, but there’s
a lot of people that — doesn’t Randy Moss have
three or four kids too or something?
>> STEVE: I don’t know if he’s got a lot
of kids. I know there was a quarterback for
the New York Jets who has nine children with
eight different women — and his name is
Antonio Crimani, by the way, and he’s having
twins. Twins are on the way with his current
girlfriend/wife/thing/whatever it is.
>> ALEX: Moment in time.
>> STEVE: Eleven children, and he’s
probably still not done. At that point, rent a
movie. Do something else, really. You want to
talk about somebody who’s going to be in that
seventy eight percent when he’s out? He’s
going to be dead fucking — he’s probably broke
now. And he’s playing in the NFL. He’s
>> ALEX: It’s escapism for him at this
point. What does McIntyre want to do?
Sixteen. He calls it pagan.
>> STEVE: He’s a pagan. I don’t think
religion has anything to do with it.
>> ALEX: I thought it was like Amish —
>> STEVE: He wants sixteen children with
four different women. That’s what he wants to
>> ALEX: That’s a life plan. Can you
fault him for that? That needs to exist at
>> STEVE: There is a gentleman in
India who has — I think it is ninety seven
kids, unbelievable. And at that point you’re
not really a father to them anymore, you’re
just — you’re just the origin point of life.
You’re just the genetic material that started
this clan, that’s all you are.
>> ALEX: You are playing god, sir.
>> STEVE: That’s definitely not with the
same woman obviously, either. No it’s not. It
can’t be. That is a vending machine. That
is — whatever vending machine is in Indian.
>> ALEX: The vending machine of India.
>> STEVE: Unbelievable. Back to the less
humorous. I don’t want to say I get it because
then everybody’s going to be like, I get it,
Steve’s suicidal, he just admitted it, but I
understand that notion of, what you’ve tried to
build is gone, you have nothing left, ball is
in your court, what do you want to do here?
>> ALEX: There’s also the moment of peril
I can see perceived as like, is what I’m doing
really working? And working is this notion
because you get fucked over, like especially
for a man who is done with his career, which
was his life essentially, and it’s classic
Death of a Salesman.
>> STEVE: I’ve never —
>> ALEX: Death of a Salesman is a story
of a dude who just loses his job or like gets
fired and can no longer be a salesman and
that’s all he’s been doing his whole life and
he just has no purpose for living. At least,
that’s my interpretation of it, like — Alex
>> STEVE: Alex does plays, he does
>> ALEX: If that is not how a movie is, I
think what I have said would be a good theme to
bring up in a story, Death of a Salesman. I’m
>> STEVE: Arthur Miller, I apologize.
>> ALEX: I’m proving the point that I can
sow a good seed and tell a good story. I’m
trying to tell the story of working steps and
trying to put my finger on it the way I have
Death of a Salesman, but the point is,
motivation for living, you lose it. It’s like,
why do this anymore?
>> STEVE: I want Death of a Salesman to
be about a cheerleading team just for that
>> ALEX: Death of a Salesman.
>> STEVE: He’s dead [sound effects].
They all have briefcases instead of pom-poms,
cutting each other because it’s incredibly
dangerous. Why did we suggest it? Because he
was a salesman and he’s gonna die.
>> ALEX: It’s dark and grim. I know what
you’re saying, because suicide is a touchy
thing to talk about because it’s one of those
things — if you start talking about your own
needs or dark thoughts you’ve had, it’s like
whoa, and I heard about this one thing on WTF,
another podcast I listen to, about this one
syndrome that they talk about women have when
they have a kid, it’s called unwanted thought
syndrome where it’s like, oh my god, I just
thought about killing my baby, oh my god, does
that mean I want to kill my baby? Oh my god,
I’m thinking about killing my baby, and they no
longer want to be near the baby anymore because
they think they’re going to kill it and it just
perpetuates its own demise and its own like —
>> STEVE: I’m glad that’s a thing
>> ALEX: Unwanted thought theory. So
it’s okay to think thoughts, just if they go
away and you don’t dwell on them, then you’re
fine but if you start like holding onto the
thought thinking about, like, you shouldn’t be
thinking about it, now you’re perpetuating this
like unwanted thought fucking syndrome.
>> STEVE: I get that. I get it. Suicide
has a tendency of like, you just have a bad day
and you’re like, and you’re like, I just want
to die. People Tweet about that shit or
Facebook post about it and that’s where I draw
the line where it’s like, no, if you ever gets
to the point where you need to share your
shitty day or moment in time there’s a better
way to do that.
>> ALEX: It’s like come on, dude, this is
why Facebook —
>> STEVE: That’s like a lack of maturity
type of thing but there’s that like serious
moment of like, you’re alone in your room —
here’s what’s been hitting me.
>> ALEX: It’s fucking raining.
>> STEVE: It’s fucking snowing.
>> ALEX: I’m just going to play smoky
jazz on my Spotify playlist, like I had this
rainy Sunday and I was like this is the most
saddest day ever, like if I had to paint the
>> STEVE: Here’s what has really fucked
with me recently. I’ve come to grips with my
own mortality more and more, and it’s gotten to
a point where all of the memories that I have
from being a child I know are gone. They’re
finite and they’re gone and they’re never
coming back. Those moments of time are gone.
>> ALEX: You could re-create them, but —
>> STEVE: No, you can’t re-create them.
>> ALEX: You could try to re-create them
but you can’t.
>> STEVE: Those instances are gone, that
is the annals of history, it does not exist, it
will never be — fuck.
>> ALEX: We are moving forward through
time. It’s all time. I can just say something
right now and be like, I’m going to put a tree
in my backyard, and you’re like bullshit. It’s
just like, give me the fucking time.
>> STEVE: That was an interesting want to
>> ALEX: It’s one of those things that’s
>> STEVE: I didn’t know you had a green
>> ALEX: I’ve been thinking about
gardening because I’ve been eating fruits and
vegetables and making a compost heap.
>> STEVE: You should — I should sit you
down with my father. He’s been gardening for a
>> ALEX: I’m not ready to devote the time
to it, right now I’ve been devoting a lot of
time to cooking and taking photos of that so
I’ve been raising skills points in those
levels, and compost is like something — once,
you know, the career or whatever life starts
panning out monetarily, then you can start —
>> STEVE: Compost, it’s the fucking pile
of garbage outside. It’s organic garbage.
That’s all you’ve got to do, throw shit in a
fucking pile and throw dirt on it. That’s a
compost pile. You’re done.
>> ALEX: What would I want that for? To
>> STEVE: It’s richer soil.
>> ALEX: I’m not going to garden. I’m
not ready to garden yet, is my point.
>> STEVE: Okay, but composting in and of
itself is not tricky process.
>> ALEX: What would I want a fucking
bucket full of garbage for?
>> STEVE: Well, now — now, I’m not
saying you can go out —
>> ALEX: You’re saying in life.
>> STEVE: I’m saying in general, you made
it sound like the hardest thing in the world,
“I’ve got to learn how to compost.” Throw
orange peels, throw some dirt on it.
>> ALEX: Oh, no, I like to read about
certain things, like think about the best way
to compost. I think somebody has written an
article about it that I could read on the
>> STEVE: Everything exists on the
>> ALEX: I have lived my life by the
Internet. I’m going to tie my shoe today, how
to tie my shoe, and you learn a new way of
tying your shoe. God knows I did, thanks to
Ted. I learned a new way to tie my shoe thanks
to Ted. I’m not even wearing shoes I have to
>> STEVE: You wear boat shoes. You don’t
>> ALEX: It’s just slippers essentially
that I wear around.
>> STEVE: Those are like moccasin-type
things. Those are fine. You can wear those
out and be totally fine. That’s fine.
>> ALEX: Earlier today at the meeting at
Newton we were talking about brands and what
kind of brands do you wear, and I was like, I
don’t wear any brands.
>> STEVE: If really, honestly, if you
could just make your own clothes and it didn’t
take that much time, you would.
>> ALEX: I would. I’ll pick this fucking
door and this old zipper and maybe this canvas
>> STEVE: I was at least going to say,
like a shower curtain or something, you would
do — like something made of fabric.
>> ALEX: Like a hubcap and a fucking
washboard, a cheese grater.
>> STEVE: Cheese grater, as a codpiece.
No, I like mine better.
>> ALEX: You’re absolutely right. I have
lived this life of, you know, I’m surrounded —
>> STEVE: This is here.
>> ALEX: This is meant to be worn, right?
And people love that shit. Again at Newton,
the person I meet was like, oh, I didn’t
recognize you without the hat, from Dine &
Sign, there was a couple episodes with the hat
and I said, it’s a hat, you’re supposed to wear
a hat. Somebody intended this has to be worn,
>> STEVE: So I wore it on camera.
>> ALEX: Yeah, that’s it. What’s wrong?
>> STEVE: Because most people have a
train of thought as to why they’re wearing
certain things. What I’m wearing right now is
because I don’t have any clean clothing.
>> ALEX: What’s wrong with what you’re
>> STEVE: Nothing. I’m just saying, but
like this is it.
>> ALEX: Do you think about that often?
Do you think about your wardrobe, like you wake
up and you say, today’s the day I’m going to
wear a fucking polo and slacks?
>> STEVE: I think of my appearance,
wardrobe included in that.
>> ALEX: Today I’m scrubbing out and I’m
going to have fucking sweatpants and a —
>> STEVE: You remember — you have to
remember this, the battle gear? Fucking
sweatpants and a ratty-ass shirt, went to
class, took an exam that I didn’t study for and
just fucking banged it out, probably cheated my
balls off and then walked out. It’s a battle
gear day. Usually those days I went to get an
Angus third pounder at McDonald’s, total slob.
>> ALEX: I haven’t really thought about
that, I’ve just thought about different
aesthetics, especially now that clothes fit me
differently, so it’s like half my battle is
finding stuff that fits.
>> STEVE: I got a used shirt right now.
This shirt is three sizes too big.
>> ALEX: I recognize, I guess half my
look has become wearing baggy clothes.
>> STEVE: I used to do that.
>> ALEX: I don’t like it any more. I’d
rather wear —
>> STEVE: It’s nice wearing form-fitting
stuff. It’s also for me almost impossible.
>> ALEX: Why?
>> STEVE: Because my body is not
proportioned. I would have to get custom-made
>> ALEX: Like fucking Stretch Armstrong?
>> STEVE: No, hang on. You know those
button-down shirts that I wore when I had a job
for a little while? I kept ripping them. I’m
not kidding, like five of them ripped in the
same spot each time right at the elbow, or like
— I do not fit in those shirts.
>> ALEX: You have callousy elbows, like
little razors, diamonds, like scales. You have
scales on your elbows.
>> STEVE: It’s always the same, there are
ways to fix that particular thing, but like if
it wasn’t that, probably it would have been
something in the back. Like, I am not
proportioned to wear shirts off of a rack type
of deal. The normal quote unquote human figure
is not what I’ve got. I have a very big ass
and very big shoulders.
I do, I always have. So like I’m aware of
that as I go out and it’s kind of always been
like I dress accordingly because this is what
fits, sort of like your mentality. But I’m
always aware of it, I’m aware that I like to
look good, so I want to wear these things,
these things work well together.
>> ALEX: I don’t know if I’ve consciously
taken it to that level because —
>> STEVE: I’m a vain son of a bitch. I
>> ALEX: But at the same time you’re vain
for yourself, because like how do you know what
looks good is actually good?
>> STEVE: Isn’t vain kind of for yourself
>> ALEX: Well no, I’m saying your
perspective is, I think I make myself look
good, but no, you think you make yourself look
good in what you think is good because —
>> STEVE: Then I’ve made an invalid
assumption. You’re assuming that I’m
considering what I’m wearing to be good.
>> ALEX: Really, so you don’t enjoy the
things you wear?
>> STEVE: No, I do, but to me I kind of
have your attitude of, I don’t really care all
that much. What do you like? You like these
things? Okay, cool, done. There you go. I’m
>> ALEX: Problem solved, and you look
good. I’ve sort of taken a different approach
of, I’m going to wear this —
>> STEVE: Because it’s here.
>> ALEX: And I don’t care what comes of
that, and is that just a bad sense of style, is
that a bad sense of dressing, or is it his own
sense of style? You make that work, like —
you just do.
>> STEVE: You have to have a certain je
ne sais quoi to pull that off. In English
terms, you’ve got to have the balls to just not
give a shit, which if you don’t —
>> ALEX: I have the balls.
>> STEVE: You don’t give a shit, so we’re
>> ALEX: It’s all about having balls.
Going back to E.T., I look at some things, it’s
like it takes a set of balls to tell someone, I
need a shot that looks like this.
>> STEVE: Sir, that will cost fifty five
>> ALEX: Really, it’s just like, I want a
shot of this: Vertigo shot of the town coming
in and then this guy walks over and then he
pulls out a walkie-talkie and then a vertigo
shot back. I was impressed at these like
things that were designed and I broke it down,
like how would you communicate that to someone
either visually or in text, and it was very
cool. It was one of those — the power of
>> STEVE: I agree.
>> ALEX: And being vain. We strive to be
great in all things, awesome.
>> STEVE: That was a hell of a
>> ALEX: That is what the reason for
living is, to be awesome at things and that’s
what sort of happened to Junior Seau is like —
>> STEVE: I’m no longer awesome,
therefore he just — and I can’t fathom what
was going through his mind exactly because I’ve
never achieved the level of success that he —
>> ALEX: This talks about — I forget
what movie it was from, there was a quote where
it was like, never will I enjoy the man who
makes his success too quickly, that notion of a
person who has an overnight success will
squander it away or not truly appreciate it as
someone who has worked really hard for a long
amount of time and then gets to that point he
always knew he deserved, it just didn’t happen
as quick as he wanted it to, so he appreciates
it more and it’s like yeah, but once you get to
that point, you worked really hard and you no
longer have it, how do you handle that?
>> STEVE: I don’t know. I really don’t.
I hope eventually I will be in a position of
Junior Seau where I’ve had a phenomenal career
and then —
>> ALEX: And then you just perpetuate it.
>> STEVE: That’s it, it’s now over, now
move onto the next phase of life. I hope at
some point that happens to me because at least
then I would have had the success.
>> ALEX: But in your mind you will
perpetuate some level of attaining goodness in
the next phase.
>> STEVE: But I’m sure Junior Seau
thought so too, I want to rock this out and
then I’ll be this guy forever and I’ll do this
and this and this, and shit just didn’t go his
way, and that was it.
>> ALEX: That’s deep. This is a deep
half to end on, but it made me think about
things and that at the very least we can have
people thinking about things. But hey, wait,
before you go, don’t forget to follow us at
>> STEVE: Or Facebook.com/OpenLounge,
which I have been using more and more lately.
>> ALEX: Facebook? Taking that on the
>> STEVE: Yes.
>> ALEX: It’s very important because we
stepped out, we’re going to step back in to
give you the social media stuff. That’s very
important. You can make this show your own,
especially with the transcription process.
>> STEVE: I’ve actually started talking
to Brandon like, just one-on-one.
>> ALEX: Via Twitter?
>> STEVE: No, Facebook. I don’t really
use Twitter like that. Twitter is like kind of
a separate thing.
>> ALEX: It’s like Instant Message with
the world, so you can talk to us anytime,
especially with hopefully our newfound
>> STEVE: He’s calling the fuck people
rule the D’Toolio rule, which I very much like.
>> ALEX: If you’re interested about that
rule, once again, follow us on Twitter and
Facebook. But I think we’re going to end on
that note so this one is for him, for all those
people that like to think out there. We’re
covering the tab tonight. I’m very stricken by
>> STEVE: Don’t forget to tip your
>> ALEX: Yeah, please don’t forget to tip
her. She might need it.
>> STEVE: She might.
>> ALEX: We’ll see you next week, and
we’ll save you a seat.
>> BRANDON: Hey, what are you guys still
doing here? Go check out Podsmiths.com.