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Textual Hearing

THE OPEN LOUNGE PODCAST PRESENTS

EPISODE 107: TEXTUAL HEARING

with Alex Laferriere, Steve DiTullio, and Brandon Vogel

May 5, 2012

Link to podcast

Transcript provided by:
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>> ALEX:  Open Lounge is a proud member of

the Podsmiths network.

>> STEVE:  Subscribe to this show and more

at Podsmiths.com.

>> BRANDON:  On today’s episode of Open

Lounge:

>> ALEX:  I don’t know where filmmaking is

going as far as the epics are concerned.

>> BRANDON:  And then:

>> STEVE:  For me personally this guy was

like a hero of mine as a kid.

(Music playing)
>> BRANDON:  Welcome to Open Lounge.

>> STEVE:  Where the glasses are chilled,

the drinks are poured, and the seats are warm.

>> ALEX:  I’m Alex.

>> STEVE:  I’m Steve.

>> BRANDON:  And Brandon is here too.

>> ALEX:  We’re recording at the G Two

Seven Lounge where we come every week to

discuss topics ranging from film to philosophy.

>> BRANDON:  Won’t you join us?

>> ALEX:  Steve, this going to be an

interesting episode because this is actually

going to go somewhere further than our website.

We are going to get this transcribed.  Yes,

I’ve been looking into a transcription service.

>> STEVE:  You’ve been looking into

that — this has been a pet project of yours

for little while.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, and this has recently come

around, thanks to Karen online that I’ve been

talking to, she does her own Twitter work and

it’s great seeing her out there and she

recommended a transcription service to

basically listen to our podcast and put it into

a text format so it’s like this weird —

>> STEVE:  Why is she doing this?

>> ALEX:  Because, well, I’m talking to

this one guy Bill who says it’s like — it

would be great to have podcasts transcribed so

the deaf audience — the thirty six million

people out there — could actually partake as

an audience, so I was like, that’s kind of

brilliant, not to mention it could be made into

a book as well, to have it into a text format,

to have it as a blog.

>> STEVE:  Sure, it’s just that that’s

just a lot of work.

>> ALEX:  I think it’s automated, it’s

like Dragon speech.

>> STEVE:  Oh boy, that’s going to be

funny in and of itself.

>> ALEX:  Why?

>> STEVE:  Because I don’t think those

things work that well.

>> ALEX:  You don’t think the machine will

do it right?

>> STEVE:  Probably not.

>> ALEX:  Why wouldn’t it?

>> STEVE:  Because there have been times

when I’ve screamed so loud that words have not

come out properly, so just on the off chance

that that happens again sometime within the

next ten minutes —

>> ALEX:  You’re a yeller.

>> STEVE:  I am a yeller, and I sometimes

yell incoherently, so I guess I’ll have to

watch my speech this time around.

>> ALEX:  We all have to, all those past

episodes, oh, no one — my dad’s not going to

hear this, now it’s like —

>> STEVE:  Now he will.

>> ALEX:  If all the episodes get chosen.

>> STEVE:  That would be a hell of a lot

of work.

>> ALEX:  To go back and do a whole —

>> STEVE:  Oh god, yeah.

>> ALEX:  It would be kind of cool.

>> STEVE:  It would be phenomenal.  It

would be awesome.

>> ALEX:  The journals of Steve and Alex.

>> STEVE:  It would be great, it just

would be a lot of eff’in work.

>> ALEX:  I understand, it’s just sort of

weird because like we’ve been covering a lot of

stuff in our own lives, we’ve kind of gotten

away for a little bit and I wanted to use this

as a platform to kind of talk to an audience

that we’ve been building with Dine & Sign, and

basically —

>> STEVE:  I’m totally game for it,

just — it’s Karen, right?

>> ALEX:  Right.

>> STEVE:  Karen, be prepared when I break

the system, that’s all.  Have a contingency

plan.

>> ALEX:  Bill is the guy I’m talking to.

>> STEVE:  Have a contingency plan.

>> ALEX:  This is coming at you.

>> STEVE:  Adjust your microphone volume

accordingly.

>> ALEX:  Dine & Sign been taking this

audience, building an audience, and kind of

people who are enjoying watching me and my dad

and talking on the web and doing a show which

is kind of weird, and now I would love to tap

into that audience base and ask them what was

on their minds as far as like over the next

couple of months.

I have this plan in my mind that something

was going to happen, a competition of sorts in

which I’m going to ask my father, you know,

it’s the summertime, blockbusters, you know,

people go see movies in the summer, kind of a

thing if I do say so.  Avengers hit yesterday

if you want to get some topical information.

>> STEVE:  Yes, I haven’t seen it though.

It’s a yes or no.  Have you seen it?

>> ALEX:  No.

>> STEVE:  Move on.  Neither of us have

seen it.  We can’t talk about it.

>> ALEX:  But I feel like I can’t get away

from it.  There’s advertisements everywhere on

Spotify, and I was at the Apple store the other

day and there was the most epic ad on Spotify.

>> STEVE:  This has the potential to be a

modern-day Jaws in the sense that this will

change the way movies are made for years to

come, this is the first time this massive

continuities have been built up, and word on

the street is Marvel continues — has a plan to

continue to do this, so there is a very real

possibility that this will be the future of

moviegoing, where this will be how they get

people to come in where if you’ve got a cop, a

cop drama, a buddy cop movie you’re going to

make, there are the cops that are running

around trying to save people in the Avengers

movie and now you’re branching out further, and

the possibilities for this are big.  There’s a

lot of money riding on this one so you’re going

to see it everywhere.

>> ALEX:  And I think that’s fascinating

because as far as filmmaking and cinematography

is concerned, I don’t know if the lines can be

pushed any more, like I’ve looked at the

trailers and I’ve looked at the film that’s

coming out and it’s like, this is visually

stimulating overload.  I was just watching E.T.

before I came into the lounge and I noticed

something.  It’s so soft and slow as far as

filmmaking is concerned.

>> STEVE:  Different era.

>> ALEX:  And that’s when I realized, holy

shit, we are in this ADD world of boom, boom,

boom, boom, boom.

>> STEVE:  Shit’s happening all over the

place.

>> ALEX:  Our summer blockbusters just

have to be summer blockbusters, like these huge

epics from Transformers, to now the Avengers

that’s coming out, and like there were comic

book movies last year.  I remember we were

talking about, I think the only movie I was

going to see last year was Captain America.

Have not seen it.

>> STEVE:  I still haven’t seen it either.

I want to see Cap and Thor before I go see the

Avengers movie.

>> ALEX:  That’s the whole thing with

these movies is you chain them up, you know,

combo, which makes sense, it’s just I’ve been

— I don’t know where filmmaking is going as

far as the epics are concerned and you talk

about how it’s going to change the industry, I

think it’s just like it’s hyper accentuating

the industry to the point where projects have

to get bigger and bigger.

>> STEVE:  I don’t think projects

necessarily have to get bigger and bigger,

you’re going to probably be working — you’re

talking about studios that are working on

multiple projects at a time anyway so now you

just merge the projects together in some way,

shape, or form.  Picture the — you know, some

of the detectives who are working in the

department, the same department as the guys who

are investigating the Saw murders are the buddy

cop guys.

It’s not hard, but you give them a plug,

you give them a small role in a different movie

and then they’re going to branch off.  TV’s

been doing this forever.  It will be the first

time that movies to my knowledge, the first

time that movies will have tried to do that.

>> ALEX:  I know, if we threw a little bit

of research on it — we should probably give a

shout out over to Jeff Burns over at the

Everything Film Show, maybe they can actually

get something specific.

>> STEVE:  Well, I have done a little

research on this.

>> ALEX:  On the continuity of movies?

>> STEVE:  Yes.  To the best of my

knowledge, this is the first time it’s happened

like this at least.

>> ALEX:  Drop some science.

>> STEVE:  No, that was it.

>> ALEX:  This instance in time is the

first time?

>> STEVE:  Yes.

>> ALEX:  I don’t know if somewhere in the

80’s there were some movies that came out

that were like intertwined or related in some

way.

>> STEVE:  Nothing on this type of a

scale.

>> ALEX:  Where they’re drawing from is

pop-culture threads that have been sown over

time, and I think that’s half the benefit is

just we’re entering an age in which people can

really become fan boys of a history or of a

heritage, whether it’s comic books, which have

a deeply rooted history and now the new leaf

fan boy interest, gaming — and gaming is

huge — and I was thinking about a lot of

things that I’ve kind of left behind as far as

my interest in Dungeons & Dragons and gaming

and video games in general and table top and

moving into this idea of what sort of niche

audience would we be interested in making a

story for, if I were to make the gamers —

going into our own personal project

development, there are a couple stories I would

want to produce and right now and one them

happens to be Dine & Sign, which, is this a

deaf audience we’re going towards?

I don’t know, because now we have this

podcast which we’re getting transcribed.  I

think it’s kind of cool, we’re constantly

feeding this audience with different forms of

entertainment that don’t normally go their way.

And I was talking with someone earlier at the

meeting at Newton that I had where the most

visually entertaining platform, YouTube, does

not really cater to the deaf world the way Dine

& Sign does.

>> STEVE:  Nothing does, though.

>> ALEX:  Which is unfortunate.  It’s

something I’ve never really thought about, and

how it’s like that’s a very target niche

audience that now can be communicated to.

>> STEVE:  Yeah.

>> ALEX:  Do you watch any Switched At

Birth?  Have you heard about Switched At Birth?

>> STEVE:  No.

>> ALEX:  It’s a big ABC Family show that

I see get talked about in the deaf community

like through Facebook and Twitter because it’s

about a deaf child being raised, but you know,

these two kids were switched at birth and the

deaf kid is in this other family that

theoretically shouldn’t have a deaf kid, and I

was just thinking about how yeah, there’s not

really a big deaf thread in pop culture.  It’s

always just like an add-on or maybe a

reference.

>> STEVE:  Yeah, it really isn’t.  This is

going to get a little on the controversial side

but oh well, I’ve never been afraid of a fight.

>> ALEX:  Exactly, because now —

>> STEVE:  You don’t broadcast handicaps.

In the mainstream eye, deaf is a handicap.  I

understand that there’s a culture around it, I

understand that this isn’t like a clinical

thing, but ultimately you are viewed as having

a handicap in society by not having functioning

hearing.

>> ALEX:  Right.  The meeting at Newton I

had mentioned that Glee is like the first TV

show in which there is a televised person in a

wheelchair and we kind of went really, we

thought about it and he said, okay, maybe

Sesame Street did it in like 1973.  Check in

the box, move on.  So I was like, okay, yeah,

there’s never really been like a wheelchair

character.

>> STEVE:  To be fair, in those backyard

sports games, there’s always the kid in a

wheelchair and I always picked him because he

was awesome.

>> ALEX:  In video games?

>> STEVE:  Oh, absolutely.  The backyard

baseball, backyard football, backyard

basketball.

>> ALEX:  There’s always some kid in a

wheelchair?  Wicked high speed score?

>> STEVE:  It’s the same cast of kids for

all these different games.  Did you never play

these as a kid?

>> ALEX:  No.  I hate sports games.

>> STEVE:  Holy shit.  They’re not really

sports games, though.  They’re really not.

>> ALEX:  It’s like Megaman soccer.

>> STEVE:  This is like — you picked a

couple of football players who as kids — I

think the football one was like Drew Bledsoe,

Jerry Rice, big names —

>> ALEX:  You had these giant heads on

these little bodies.

>> STEVE:  Yeah, little tiny guys and then

you had kids who were playing with them and I

would always pick the same basically like ten

guys for each of the teams and the kid in the

wheelchair was always one of them because I

always liked it.

>> ALEX:  I don’t discriminate.

>> STEVE:  That was immediately where my

mind was, you know, well, you know what?  No.

For television probably, but yes, going back to

the main point, yes, handicaps are usually not

broadcast into the mainstream.  We could really

go so far as to say it’s only been recently

that race has kind of become —

>> ALEX:  A tool to be utilized in

storytelling?

>> STEVE:  Honestly, it’s to the point now

where you have to have a certain race mix for a

certain image to make sure that you’re not

being too stereotypical.

>> ALEX:  Which is ironic because I did

some research on the Aunt Jemima logo back in

college, and the notion that some of their

advertisement campaigns were people in

blackface going around and like role-playing

Aunt Jemima and that was totally acceptable,

and that was totally like as if a caricature at

a sports arena was walking around waving at

everyone and people were like, that’s

fucking — what is that, the Red Sox one?

That’s awful of me that I don’t know.  Wally?

>> STEVE:  Wally.

>> ALEX:  Which is a weird mascot for the

Red Sox, have no idea why that —

>> STEVE:  Because the green monster, the

great green wall —

>> ALEX:  So the big green monster is this

fat, frumpy, Wally the fucking crazy, Doctor

Seussian creature?

>> STEVE:  No, Wally is — it’s a green

monster and the park is known for having a

green monster wall.

>> ALEX:  No, I agree with the green

monster.  It just doesn’t look like a monster.

>> STEVE:  He looks a Sesame Street

character.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, that’s not really like a

monster like the Worcester — the Ice Cats.  He

looked like a mean Ice Cat.  I liked him

from —

>> STEVE:  Worcester Ice Cats, what are

you talking about?

>> ALEX:  The hockey team.

>> STEVE:  Dude, the Sharks.

>> ALEX:  They used to be the Ice Cats.

I’m saying before, when I saw a mascot, I’d

like to see an aggressive mascot.

>> STEVE:  Talking sports with you is like

pulling teeth, it really is.

>> ALEX:  I know, I’m talking about the

lamest thing about sports in general.

>> STEVE:  You just don’t — this is like

me trying to — when we were talking to — who

is the dude from Green Ronin publishing, the

gentleman’s name at JanCom? he was talking

about the differences between a D6 and a D10

and how they revolutionized the game and I was

just kind of sitting there like, oh my God, I

am out of my element.

>> ALEX:  It’s funny because we have so

many niche categories in our world.

>> STEVE:  By the way, not that he was in

any way, shape — oh god, I want to say it was

Chris something.

>> ALEX:  Chris Purdy is — in my mind,

but — I saw him on Twitter at some point —

Perkins — Green Ronin Publishing.

>> STEVE:  We gave him the proper plug.

>> ALEX:  The business plug.

>> STEVE:  Not that any of that was like

at all not interesting, we were just —

>> ALEX:  This is when you talk poker.

>> STEVE:  I’m absorbing so much now I

have nothing to add to this conversation.  I

don’t know what he’s talking about.

>> ALEX:  The thing about all the

different worlds, once again going back the

Newton meeting that’s been on my mind all day,

talking about niches and what kind of show or

storytelling can you develop — and you are

talking about doing stuff for the poker world,

you’ve always said there’s not a lot of content

for the poker world.

>> STEVE:  There is not, and the stuff

that’s there is pretty bare-bones.

>> ALEX:  And it’s like tapping into the

well of making a story for a specific

community, like what would the deaf community

want to see from someone like me?  I know

there’s a proper way to approach this, but to

go back, you know, working stiffs is a project

that I want to tell in a web series format,

what does that look like?

>> STEVE:  I’m okay doing something where

we have a character who is deaf and that

becomes like a part of the plot.  That’s not —

like let’s pull the curtain back, that’s not a

bad idea.  When you brought that up I said

okay, he’s thinking.  I like that.  That’s not

bad.

>> ALEX:  I don’t want to say it’s

exploitive but I want to relate to a group of

people.

>> STEVE:  It’s not exploitative to do

things like that.  It’s just not.  You’re an

entertainer, you have to show people what they

want, otherwise they’re not going to watch.

Now, you’re not necessarily kowtowing to this

group of people, but at the same time you’ve

got to give them a reason to keep watching,

otherwise they’re not going to and that’s kind

of the nature of the beast.

You can go too far in the other direction,

just be like everybody’s deaf, ooh ah ah ah, ah

ah, and it’s wrong, that would be exploitative,

but you can’t talk any more so it was kind of

like —

>> ALEX:  Another form of communication.

>> STEVE:  I apologize to every deaf

person in the world who just read that.  The

bottom line is see, Dragon speech, how is

Dragon speech going to be like ooh, ah ah ah?

>> ALEX:  They’ll figure it out.  This is

an experiment, because I don’t know of any

other deaf podcast out there.  I haven’t done

the research for it.  Talk about a man of

duality, I do live in two worlds.

>> STEVE:  You talk about living in

duality, I just gave you shit about it because

I think there’s more than a duality.

>> ALEX:  This is maybe a point of

discussion for people, but going back on that

point of me living in two worlds, the hearing

world and the deaf world, thinking about how to

bridge those two is like always on my mind of

how to tell a good story that would placate one

audience without alienating another, and I

understand, you know it’s like once you become

known for something either online or in life —

earlier today we were talking about Rachel Ray,

how she is like the thirty-minute chef, that’s

all she’s known for in the world of — the

entertainment world.

>> STEVE:  Not even close.

>> ALEX:  Thirty-minute chef?

>> STEVE:  She’s had a talk show going for

about ten years now.

>> ALEX:  She’ll only be — every one of

her shows has something to do with cooking,

right?

>> STEVE:  No, she has a talk show.  She

is a fucking Oprah clone.

>> ALEX:  What?

>> STEVE:  She’s never been a cook.

That’s the whole point.  She’s just one of the

first people who is on the food network

channel.  She’s not a chef.  She’s not trained

as a chef, she doesn’t know how to cook — not

know how to cook, you know what I mean, like

culinary school wise.  She does not know those

things, she was never taught those things in a

school setting.  She had the thirty-minute

meals show, she had the forty dollars a day

show where she would go to these different

restaurants and spend forty bucks a day on a

trip —

>> ALEX:  Thirty minutes a meal, forty

dollars a day.

>> STEVE:  No, thirty-minute meals, yeah,

that was the cooking show.  She’s evolved to

the point where she has her own talk show.

>> ALEX:  Fifty bucks a night.

>> STEVE:  No.

>> ALEX:  That’s the name of the talk

show.

>> STEVE:  No, she has a talk show.  I

think it’s just “Rachel” or something like

that.

>> ALEX:  Just “Rachel.”  No, but really,

with the apostrophe?

>> STEVE:  No, she has an Oprah show now.

That’s what she is.  She’s that kind of person.

>> ALEX:  Oprah went up there by stepping

down and retiring.  “Oh yeah, you’re gonna be

better than me?  I retire.”

>> STEVE:  Yeah, maybe.

>> ALEX:  Just that one-uppance of —

>> STEVE:  Maybe, except for the fact that

now Oprah has her own network.

>> ALEX:  So now she becomes a figure,

she’s leaving a legacy of a spirit rather than

an actual image of her face.  It’s great.

She’s a powerful lady, and she’s a

rags-to-riches story, I think, right?  We buy

that up, don’t we?

>> STEVE:  She’s a poor woman in Chicago.

>> ALEX:  And all of a sudden, boom.  A

black woman at that.

>> STEVE:  She is fucking loaded.

>> ALEX:  Ted Turner type.  Talk about

numbers losing their meaning.

>> STEVE:  She is fucking loaded.  Like

unbelievable, the command that she has and the

following that she has, everything.

>> ALEX:  I try to wrap my head around

that, especially being a man of social media,

and how everything has a number to it that is

easily accessible to the public.  Like once I

started realizing that on YouTube having

100,000 views per week is a pretty big deal.

Having five million views like Ray William

Johnson of Equals Three, that unbelievable

power to think of some dude with a laptop,

uploading Dine & Sign from Harvard University

for three weeks now. And that means something.

Now I understand a lot of those views could be

thirteen-year-old kids, but —

>> STEVE:  Who cares at that point?

>> ALEX:  It’s still advertisement, right?

Who cares?

>> STEVE:  I do have — not to sidetrack

this — you sent me a text earlier in the week,

quote, remind me about playing a deaf guy

pouring oil with dramatic music and my dad

nodding epically.

>> ALEX:  So essentially with this summer

shorts blockbuster, I thought of this one short

that I, at the very least want to try to do in

some shape or form.  There’s a couple things I

want to accomplish this summer.

>> STEVE:  I’d really be okay with filming

shit, because that’s what I signed up for.

>> ALEX:  What I described there is the

story.  That is the script.  We are going to

get together on a day and just have a little

sketch, there are two lines of dialogue —

>> STEVE:  Is this a Helen Keller scene,

is this what it was?  [yelling] Again, deaf

people, I apologize.

>> ALEX:  It was just like, there was a

bottle of olive oil that was empty, it was a

nice, long-necked one I like to use and we had

a rinky-dink shahs bottle with olive oil and I

wanted to transfer the two.

>> STEVE:  You wanted to make it look like

you had classy olive oil?

>> ALEX:  Exactly, the aesthetics of the

oil.  And I was just like, okay, time to pour

this, and I was just like, and I was like,

okay, got to focus on this now, and I just

imagined — imagine there was this scene of

this, like, crowd and for some reason it was

like competition pouring and there’s this team

that always wins and it’s just like, the secret

weapon, it’s this guy who is deaf just because

he is like, he is just focusing in on the

pouring of the oil and you can’t hear the crowd

like cheering him on so he just has this zen

moment of, I will not spill, because obviously

in competition pouring, you can’t.  It’s this

cute little three-minute — you show an image,

like a competition point, so you rapid-fire

storytelling, and then it’s just this

ridiculous, like these two people are like, how

is he doing this?

And it’s because he’s deaf.  I wanted to

get like really epic shots, take photos of

things, and use our eyes.  And it’s a simple

setup as far as filmmaking is concerned, like

maybe we just need a room and that’s why I was

looking at E.T., of like there’s not a lot of

stuff going on here.  A lot of these interior

shots can be done in a studio, and you set up

lights and you build it.

>> STEVE:  That might be a bad example for

“There’s not a whole lot going on there,” but I

know what you mean.  I know what the point is.

This is not as Herculean as —

>> ALEX:  I make it out to be.

>> STEVE:  That is something that is

achievable, especially with modern convenience.

>> ALEX:  Right.  Now kind of tying

everything together with that one scene, would

that be a funny like sketch?  Would people be

interested in hearing about or seeing about

that?  What is the point of doing that sketch?

Well, I don’t know, as a filmmaker I think it

would be cool to do dramatically, but now going

back again to the Avengers, of how things are

being ramped up, because things are becoming

Herculean from that standpoint of — technology

is allowing things to move a lot quicker and

faster so half of the ’80s appeal movies was

a fact that they could move the camera around a

little bit better.

>> STEVE:  People didn’t understand the

language of film back then though.  There was a

completely different language of, you have to

do these things, otherwise your audience is

just going to be lost.  Now your audience —

>> ALEX:  Way back in the ’20s and

’30s.

>> STEVE:  I think the ’80s is pretty

prevalent.

>> ALEX:  It starts to — it develops.

>> STEVE:  There’s some camera movement,

but it’s now developed to a point where your

audience is smart enough that you can pull out

some zany tricks and the suspension of this

belief won’t go like [sound effect] on you.

>> ALEX:  Sometimes today I go cross-eyed

watching modern-day movies.  Just action going

on, it’s like [yelling] —

>> STEVE:  I’ve never had that problem,

although I will say I’m liking movies like the

Transformers less and less.

>> ALEX:  As you grow older?

>> STEVE:  More recently, but I will say

as I grow older.

>> ALEX:  Would you consider E.T. a kids’

movie?

>> STEVE:  Yes.

>> ALEX:  Is it a scary kids’ movie?

>> STEVE:  Yes.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, because I recall E.T. from

the past as being this scary movie.

>> STEVE:  For a little kid — not

necessarily scary, but as a little kid you’re

not equipped to handle emotion and there was a

lot of emotions E.T. is evoking from you, so

your natural reaction as a child is to be

frightened when you don’t really know what else

to do.  As a human being, that’s kind of — you

don’t know what else to do, you kind of get

freaked out.

>> ALEX:  You just kind of panic and

there’s yelling and screaming and then there’s

like this alien creature and they’re linked and

they’re riding through the forest, like I just

remember as a kid recalling certain pieces and

it just being a scary movie and only seeing

certain scenes like on TV, like, you know,

flicking through the channels and maybe

watching fifteen minutes and being like, I have

no context of what is going on, this is fucking

frightening, moving on, so again tonight was —

I still haven’t seen it in its entirety from

start to finish because sometimes I find that

the storyline of E.T. is complex, there’s a lot

going on, going back to this forest, and I love

the scenes where, “It’s working,” it’s like, I

guess it’s working, kid, I’ll take your word

for it.  This machine that is going [sound

effects] and like moving a fork, a very rude

Goldberg machine, and it’s like, “I’ll take

your word for it.”

>> STEVE:  “I’m not sure know how you knew

that, but” —

>> ALEX:  But yeah.  “Thanks, buddy.”  So

that’s why I was saying that movies have

actually escalated because now we have the

comic book movies that are just —

>> STEVE:  That’s coming from a culture

where you had to have this absolutely

obscure — not obscure, outlandish artwork,

where comic books have always been an

incredibly visual medium, well duh, in other

news, rain makes you wet — so now when you put

that on a screen, that’s why comic book movies

haven’t really always done that well because

you’ve really only been able to do basic stuff

cinematically compared to what you can do

drawing on a piece of paper and what your

audience will, like, go for.

So now you can finally do those types of

things in cinema with movies like Thor, Captain

America, The Avengers, the Ironman movies —

supposedly there’s an I-Man 3 coming out soon

which will lead in to more, larger universe

movies which —

>> ALEX:  Because Iron Man chains up with

other things, right?  See, that’s the other

thing.  I don’t even — remember other

things — I enjoy comic books more reading the

Wikipedia articles than I do the actual comic

books themselves.

>> STEVE:  It’s kind of a similar thing.

>> ALEX:  That sucks, doesn’t it?

>> STEVE:  Not really.

>> ALEX:  I’m just a top level fucking

geek for this type of stuff.

>> STEVE:  There’s only so many hours in

the day, Alex.

>> ALEX:  I’ll let those people consume

the comic, and tell me what’s good.

>> STEVE:  Now I get the synopses and I’m

okay with that.  But I heard the Civil War plot

line was what they were going to try to bring

out.

>> ALEX:  Okay.  I remember hearing about

that, and it was great, just enough for me to

hear about it.

>> STEVE:  Which I believe ends with —

Wolverine’s involved in the Civil War series —

>> ALEX:  Somebody dies.

>> STEVE:  Captain America dies, I believe

Iron Man kills Captain America.  I believe

that’s how it works.

>> ALEX:  Really?

>> STEVE:  Yes, I believe that’s how it

goes down.  I am fairly confident.  Spiderman I

know is involved.

>> ALEX:  He gets a mask.

>> STEVE:  He intentionally gets a mask

which, in the comic world they have all just

gotten rid of, like no, that never happened.

>> ALEX:  Because now there’s a split

parallel in the Spiderman world.

>> STEVE:  This is why you don’t read

comics though, this is why you kind of listen

to them.

>> ALEX:  You listen to someone else tell

you the story.

>> STEVE:  Where it’s like, cool, someone

else can give me the synopsis.  I didn’t have

to read ninety pages to get to that point.

>> ALEX:  I’ve discovered a lot of things

that I enjoy recently.  I acquired some digital

comics of the old Spiderman just to see what

they look like in PDF form, and I was like,

wow, to sit here and enjoy each image and each

frame as a drawing rather than just read the

bubbles and kind of [sound effects] glance, to

actually appreciate every little thing and take

the time to read a comic book rather than skim

it, people do that and I don’t.  That’s an

interesting thing to consume and I’m wondering

if — why people still do that, first of all,

that enjoyment to go to a comic store and buy

the physical comic?

>> STEVE:  It’s people who have always

been into it and just kind of perpetuated it,

like the movie Bob, who we’ve talked about on

this show — he is big into comics, and he

mentioned in a couple of them that comics get

really weird with continuities because the guys

who are writing the comics now were the ones

who were reading the comics before and they

like those bigger continuities and all those

characters, and now they want to include them

in their own works and now it just kind of

escalates from there.

>> ALEX:  Did you follow any author, any

comic authors or writers?

>> STEVE:  I don’t follow comics, period,

story over.  I know the big heroes, I know I

was huge into Batman as a kid but Batman to me

was Batman, the animated series.

>> ALEX:  The same with Spiderman.  I

really enjoyed the animated series a well.

>> STEVE:  I like the animated series as

well, Spiderman was another one.  My little

brother got really into Spiderman.  I got into

Batman.  I’m familiar with the Hulk, I’m

familiar with Superman, Wonder Woman, The

Justice League, the cartoon network show many

years later —

>> ALEX:  Never watched that.

>> STEVE:  I really liked that show a lot.

>> ALEX:  Really?

>> STEVE:  It was on at night too, it was

a little bit more like, not mature cartoon, but

it was on the early end of —

>> ALEX:  Kidsy type of thing?

>> STEVE:  It was the early end of the

night.  If you look back at Batman, the

animated series, I remember looking back at

that and being genuinely kind of frightened

too.

>> ALEX:  It’s a dark cartoon.  It’s drawn

on black construction paper for that specific

reason.

>> STEVE:  It definitely sets a different

tone, a different mood and I remember watching

Mask Of The Phantom, I can’t remember — the

animated movie they did where —

>> ALEX:  I remember renting that from

Blockbuster.  My father and I, the VHS.

>> STEVE:  My father and I went to

theaters to see that.

>> ALEX:  Wow.  What did he think about

it?

>> STEVE:  What did he think about it?  I

don’t know.  I was really little at the time.

I don’t remember, I was six or seven.

>> ALEX:  Did you prompt him to take you

or he was like, I’m going to take you to see

that?

>> STEVE:  All I remember from that day

with my father and I went to the movies, my

mother had people over at the house and they

were asking me about the movie afterwards.

That’s all I remember, but I remember my father

was the one who took me.  I think my little

brother was a baby and couldn’t go anywhere

yet, so that’s why I went with my father.

>> ALEX:  I remember renting it from

Blockbuster and my dad was like, that’s Batman.

Brought it home, put it in, he was like, “It’s

a cartoon?”  I was like no, I wanted the actual

movie.  I was like, “No, Dad, that’s pretty

cool, it’s a feature-length cartoon, that’s

epic.”  He just didn’t get it and he’s like

“Oh, that sucks,” and he just didn’t watch it

and I was like okay, fine, I will enjoy it.

>> STEVE:  Okay, screw you.

>> ALEX:  It was just cool to see how

comics jumped into long form feature like films

like that, even from that age because I don’t

know what cartoons are doing.  I know

Nickelodeon acquired Fred.

>> STEVE:  CG and a lot of it.

>> ALEX:  Fred made a Nickelodeon movie,

did you know that?

>> STEVE:  Yes, I know that.  John Cena

was his father.

>> ALEX:  That’s the audience that watches

wrestling?  The Nickelodeon audience watches

wrestling?  The wrestling audience blows me

away.

>> STEVE:  Wrestling today is very

different than wrestling was when I was a kid.

When I was a kid, wrestling was catered towards

a much more mature audience.  That was that

attitude era where they were like naked chicks

up on the screen dancing in silhouette in the

background and you were seeing like people

getting busted open and bleeding.  It was

intense, it was an intense experience.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, it was scary.

>> STEVE:  And there were like bikini

contests where people were wearing nothing more

than body paint — that’s a big oh my God

moment from wrestling — but now it’s geared

towards little kids largely because John Cena

became as popular as he did and started doing

this kid thing and now he’s wildly popular with

the younger demographic, so the whole program

kinda turned more — it was TV 14 when I was

watching it as a kid.  It’s TV PG now.

>> ALEX:  TV ratings and stuff, geez.

>> STEVE:  But to go back to it, yes.

Probably the Nickelodeon audience now is what

would watch wrestling today as well although

it’s still on in the late hours anyway so it’s

not like little kids are really going to be

able to see it.

>> ALEX:  I like to think about different

audiences because this is that episode of niche

worlds.

>> STEVE:  That’s a big one, too.

Wrestling is big.

>> ALEX:  It blows my mind.  It blows my

mind.

>> STEVE:  You want to know what the most

popular sport in the country is by far?

>> ALEX:  NASCAR?

>> STEVE:  NASCAR.  By far, it’s not

close.  Although I think in past years it’s

become a lot closer between football and

NASCAR.

>> ALEX:  Amazing.  Not that that doesn’t

mean anything, it’s just — to see the dude

walking down the street who —

>> STEVE:  People who grew up in the

northeast, you’re just not exposed to this.

We’re just not in areas and learning the

geography of wrestling — because there was

one — we’re in no way shape or form anywhere

near where this stuff was really big.

>> ALEX:  And then boom, Internet.

>> STEVE:  Yeah, well, it was before the

Internet.

>> ALEX:  It allows people access to this.

Now maybe —

>> STEVE:  Someone in Mexico, Japan —

those are huge wrestling markets.  I think the

mecca of wrestling is in North Carolina or

something like that, in the United States,

which is like, huh?  What?  To someone who grew

up in Massachusetts his whole life it’s like,

what the hell is in North Carolina?  There’s

nothing in North Carolina.

>> ALEX:  So we’ve touched on a lot of

different demographics, a cocktail of different

things, deafness and wrestling and comic books

and gaming and —

>> STEVE:  Speaking of cocktails.

>> ALEX:  Yes, this is the Open Lounge.

We’re going to grab a quick drink break here

for a second.

(Music playing)

>> ALEX:  I’m not a football fan.

>> STEVE:  No, you’re not.

>> ALEX:  But Junior Seau is no longer

among us.

>> STEVE:  Kind of screwed with my head.

>> ALEX:  And we are driving home and I

totally love the idea of radio because it hits

all the right points, you know, little

bite-sized segments that are constantly

repeated throughout the day, so — so if you

happen to catch it at 3 p.m. because you’re

going home from work or you’re outside on your

lunch break, and — you’re going to hear the

news sprinkled throughout the day.  So the

Junior Seau thing, I got to hear many different

forms of it from, you know, Junior Seau found

dead in his home, and I was like, why does that

sound so familiar?

>> STEVE:  Knowing you’re not a football

fan.

>> ALEX:  NFL story Junior Seau found

dead, and it’s kind of like oh my God, and I

Wiki’d it as I was driving.

>> STEVE:  This would be if — of the same

caliber as — he’s a bigger deal than Teddy

Brewski for sure.

>> ALEX:  Really?  I think Teddy Brewski

has a local appeal because I’m a Patriots fan,

but in the larger schema of NFL, I don’t know.

>> STEVE:  Junior Seau is probably the

biggest star to have ever had this happen to

him from the National Football League by far.

>> ALEX:  Had this happen to him?  Like

others, like his story, or his death?

>> STEVE:  There are other football

players within the last five years who have

taken their own lives because of supposed

damage to the brain and injuries and their

lives not going the way they wanted them to.

There was a gentleman from the Bears who, I

don’t remember the name, I don’t even remember

the position that he played but he shot himself

in the chest with a shotgun and he donated his

brain to doing study, to doing studies of like

brain damage from NFL players from all the hits

and everything because he couldn’t take it

anymore, so he took his own life and said, take

the brain, figure it out, figure out how to

prevent this from happening to other people.

>> ALEX:  Wow.

>> STEVE:  Yes.  Junior Seau is not the

first person to have done this and this is not

the first time he tried to kill himself.

>> ALEX:  Well, he said he fell asleep at

the road.  Are you talking about that incident?

>> STEVE:  Yes, I’m talking about when he

drove over the cliff, but he’s currently no

longer among us, so I’m less inclined to

believe that he fell asleep.  At the time I

thought sure, he just fell asleep.  I don’t

really believe that anymore.

>> ALEX:  That really frightened me.

>> STEVE:  Me too.

>> ALEX:  Because there was a moment in

which I was driving down the road and so many

thoughts going through my head of, it’s just

like this whelming, looming like angst of life.

I don’t want to use that term a lot but

just that — things and seeing people on their

cell phones, or — I was at a rest stop on

Naspike 90 and seeing like this mother like

wrestling with her two kids and being upset at

her own life, I could recognize that, and then

to hear this guy who I’ve seen play for the

Patriots and wealthy, fit, looks good —

>> STEVE:  Here’s a great statistic.

>> ALEX:  — take his own life, I was

like, what do I really have to be worried

about?

>> STEVE:  Just as a side note, seventy

eight percent — this is data coming straight

from the NFL — seventy eight percent of the

players who graduate — I’ll use that term —

>> ALEX:  Retired.  I heard about this

statistic.

>> STEVE:  — are either broke, divorced,

financially bankrupt, they have no money, they

have nothing.  Seventy eight percent of the

players that played in that league.

Unbelievable.  Unbelievable that it’s that

high.

>> ALEX:  I saw something like that too

where it’s like two thirds of everyone who

retires from the NFL becomes bankrupt.

>> STEVE:  I think they used the term

alumni.  I don’t think they said retired

because I think it expanded I think beyond just

the player pool.

>> ALEX:  So like coaches and stuff like

that?

>> STEVE:  Maybe.  I think coaches are

included in this as well.  I think.  I think it

was staff in general, I’m not sure about that

though.

>> ALEX:  That’s interesting.  I’d like to

get more specifics on that.

>> STEVE:  Belicheck’s divorced.  Bill

Parcells divorced.

>> ALEX:  Isn’t that crazy?

>> STEVE:  That’s just kind of the nature

of the beast.

>> ALEX:  Is that because of just sheer

determination to succeed at one particular

thing?

>> STEVE:  Yeah, I think this really does

just come down to these guys are so devoted to

their craft they probably should not have

gotten married and had these families, and if

their families — when their families came

about, when they got married and they started

planning on having kids, everyone needed to be

aware of the fact that this was what you are

looking forward to.

This was what life was going to be, it

wasn’t just going to suddenly go away.  Tom

Coughlin who coached the Giants is going to be

70 this year, or somewhere in that

neighborhood.  You can do this for a very long

time in the National Football League.  Lou

Belicheck is almost in his 60s.  That’s

unbelievable.  They’re all older men who —

Sean Payton is young, the Saints head coach.

He’s young.

>> ALEX:  The Steelers coach is young too.

>> STEVE:  No, well, all right.  He’s

actually young.  Sean Payton is young and he’s

probably still in like his 50s.  He’s a young

coach.  He might be 45.

>> ALEX:  The Steelers coach, he’s in his

mid-30s.  38 or something.

>> STEVE:  They’re players.

>> ALEX:  Yeah.  He has that spunky —

>> STEVE:  There’s another guy who was —

oh no, he just got fired.  That does not count.

>> ALEX:  That does not count.

>> STEVE:  The former coach of the Tampa

Bay Buccaneers whose name is totally escaping

me, but —

>> ALEX:  Pulling the threads together of

sheer dedication to the craft, is that a level

of insanity?  Is that a level of perfection?

To actually bring up Steve Wazowski — I don’t

know if I’m saying his name right, “The Waz” —

he was from Apple computers, the interview, and

I talked to him a lot and I remember one thing

resonating strong within me was, he said, live

in the middle.  I’ve always been a fan of

living in the middle.

So when Steve Jobs is building Apple and

becoming huge, he steps down and obviously took

his money and went away from the limelight of

it all and it just makes me wonder if there is

a grain of truth to that, because there’s a

level of insanity to try to be the top of

something and to have these athletes who push

themselves physically as a person who — focus

on fitness now, yeah, to imagine someone who is

just working hard, this is what they do for a

living and train, and it’s not easy.  And it’s

all time, this is the argument we talk about,

it’s all time.  That’s all it is, is how do you

want to spend your time.

>> STEVE:  You get such a finite window to

do it.  Seau got twenty years in the NFL, that

is beyond unbelievable.  Twelve years he was a

pro baller.  Twelve years he was considered —

for me personally this guy was like a hero of

mine as a kid.

This was one of the first football players

I really knew, because in like sixth and

seventh and eighth grade when I really started

getting into football and really start to

understand the game and the science of the game

and really started to learn about it, he was

one of the faces of the league.  He was the

linebacker for the San Diego Chargers and he

was it, he was the guy, he was like a Ray

Lewis-like figure, where everybody knows who

this guy is, everybody in the league.  He was

never going to be — to make a modern

comparison — this is going to be lost on

you — he’s more like a Patrick Willis, who is

a star in the league but is never going to be a

guy who is defensive player of the year or up

for like an MVP type of award.  He’s not that

kind of guy but he’s phenomenal at what he

does.  Seau was that guy for a number of years.

>> ALEX:  We hear now of this unfortunate

end.  How?  What drove him to this point?  And

now they talk about — is it a medical

condition of, you know, hits in the head type

of thing?

>> STEVE:  That’s where we’re going to go

with this.

>> ALEX:  So it’s a physical thing over a

mental/biological?

>> STEVE:  They’re going to talk about

multiple concussions and head traumas.  I’m

less inclined to believe that Seau had a whole

lot of that.  Here’s what I think —

>> ALEX:  Because the other comparison I

hear is like road rage within the wrestling

industry and spousal abuse.

>> STEVE:  A lot of wrestlers that I even

grew up watching are long since dead.  Long

since dead.

>> ALEX:  And they weren’t that old.

>> STEVE:  Macho Man Randy Savage died

recently.  He was in his, I think, 60s at the

oldest.  He wasn’t that old.

>> ALEX:  He was ripped and out of his

head though.  I’m talking about that adrenaline

coursing through his body frequently, whether

it’s steroids or otherwise —

>> STEVE:  Which, by the way, I’m not

totally sure a lot of those guys were doing

steroids.  I’m on the fence about that one

because I know guys have talked about getting

suspended for it and whatnot, so I’m not sure

how dirty that industry is, but we’re certainly

not talking about a professional — like normal

professional athletics where it is considered

an advantage to take steroids.  We’re talking

about people who are just trying to look good

and pull off a show.  But back to just —

>> ALEX:  Junior Seau?

>> STEVE:  It’s bugging me.  It really is.

Here’s what I think happened to him:  I think

he went through a divorce, he was in the league

for twenty years, that was all he had, he

saw —

>> ALEX:  Did he retire?  Did he step

down?  He did.

>> STEVE:  A couple of times.

>> ALEX:  He came back.

>> STEVE:  Belicheck kind of like tapped

him on the shoulder with one of our shitty

defense and said hey, be on the practice

squad — which now, because I know Belicheck,

being an avid Patriots fan — or at least I

perceive him to be some kind of genius — I

know that he saw something being as kind of

wrong with Seau and he was depressed.

He said, all right, you were good for me.

Be like a player coach now.  Help show the next

generation, be a part of this.  Take that next

step, be that next guy.  You can’t be the guy

making the tackle, but show the guy how to make

the tackle.  You know what I’m saying?

>> ALEX:  Get on him when he makes a bat

and that kind of thing.

>> STEVE:  Be that guy.  You can still do

that, and I feel like that’s just never really

clicked with Junior and he went through the

divorce and his family life was falling apart,

and he lost — he just can’t do what he’s been

doing for his whole life.

>> ALEX:  I think what is a good summation

about this is Rocky 2.  No, Rocky 4.  When

they’re having that discussion, Apollo Creed,

and Apollo has that burning desire to like be a

warrior and he talks to Rocky about like, we

have to do this, Rocky, it’s in our blood, we

have to fight and he ends up getting killed by

Ivan Drago and it’s like that moment of — I

had resonated with that notion of, some people

just have this burning desire to be a musician,

a boxer, a filmmaker.

>> STEVE:  And I think Seau — I think the

problem with that is you can’t — it’s

incredibly difficult to turn off, and I think

Seau couldn’t turn it off and I think that he

decided to — assuming at this time, I’m

assuming it’s a suicide because that’s the only

things that have been mentioned so far — I’m

assuming he hasn’t been killed, because if he’s

been killed this conversation completely

changes but I think he just had enough.  He had

just had enough.  My life as I have built it to

this point is over, I don’t want to rebuild it,

I’m done.

>> ALEX:  That’s where I go to where it’s

like, well, just go play some video games, man,

like go veg in a corner and enjoy what life has

to offer.

>> STEVE:  I agree.  I especially agree

having seen his mother with all those

television cameras in front of her having just

heard that her son committed suicide.

>> ALEX:  Wait, they jumped her?

>> STEVE:  No, she did like a press

conference kind of thing.

>> ALEX:  Like a fucking TMZ thing, like a

“Hey, hey, Mrs. Seau”?

>> STEVE:  You wanted immediate “My life

is not as bad as I thought it was”?  Go watch

the four minutes of her on camera.  It’s

like —

>> ALEX:  Does she talk about her life?

>> STEVE:  She’s speaking in tongues,

she’s so upset.  She really is.  She’s yelling

at God for half of it.  There was like some

heavy shit going on.  That’s not cool.  The

saddest part of this, Seau has four kids.

>> ALEX:  Really?

>> STEVE:  Junior Seau has four children

or had four children.  I think all girls.  Four

children.

>> ALEX:  With this one divorced —

>> STEVE:  I don’t know, I assume so.  I

haven’t heard otherwise, but I don’t know for

certain if that’s the case.  He’s got four

kids.

>> ALEX:  You have something to live for

at that point.

>> STEVE:  You had kids.  Your life’s not

about you anymore when you have kids, that’s

kind of how it works.  Thanks, Mom and Dad.

>> ALEX:  We’re coming around Mother’s Day

soon, so that’s a moment to take note.

>> STEVE:  Four kids.

>> ALEX:  And it’s just a lot of — I’m

making broad generalizations here, but there’s

a lot of people that — doesn’t Randy Moss have

three or four kids too or something?

>> STEVE:  I don’t know if he’s got a lot

of kids.  I know there was a quarterback for

the New York Jets who has nine children with

eight different women — and his name is

Antonio Crimani, by the way, and he’s having

twins.  Twins are on the way with his current

girlfriend/wife/thing/whatever it is.

>> ALEX:  Moment in time.

>> STEVE:  Eleven children, and he’s

probably still not done.  At that point, rent a

movie.  Do something else, really.  You want to

talk about somebody who’s going to be in that

seventy eight percent when he’s out?  He’s

going to be dead fucking — he’s probably broke

now.  And he’s playing in the NFL.  He’s

fucked.

>> ALEX:  It’s escapism for him at this

point.  What does McIntyre want to do?

Sixteen.  He calls it pagan.

>> STEVE:  He’s a pagan.  I don’t think

religion has anything to do with it.

>> ALEX:  I thought it was like Amish —

>> STEVE:  He wants sixteen children with

four different women.  That’s what he wants to

do.

>> ALEX:  That’s a life plan.  Can you

fault him for that?  That needs to exist at

some point.

>> STEVE:  There is a gentleman in

India who has — I think it is ninety seven

kids, unbelievable.  And at that point you’re

not really a father to them anymore, you’re

just — you’re just the origin point of life.

You’re just the genetic material that started

this clan, that’s all you are.

>> ALEX:  You are playing god, sir.

>> STEVE:  That’s definitely not with the

same woman obviously, either.  No it’s not.  It

can’t be.  That is a vending machine.  That

is — whatever vending machine is in Indian.

>> ALEX:  The vending machine of India.

>> STEVE:  Unbelievable.  Back to the less

humorous.  I don’t want to say I get it because

then everybody’s going to be like, I get it,

Steve’s suicidal, he just admitted it, but I

understand that notion of, what you’ve tried to

build is gone, you have nothing left, ball is

in your court, what do you want to do here?

>> ALEX:  There’s also the moment of peril

I can see perceived as like, is what I’m doing

really working?  And working is this notion

because you get fucked over, like especially

for a man who is done with his career, which

was his life essentially, and it’s classic

Death of a Salesman.

>> STEVE:  I’ve never —

>> ALEX:  Death of a Salesman is a story

of a dude who just loses his job or like gets

fired and can no longer be a salesman and

that’s all he’s been doing his whole life and

he just has no purpose for living.  At least,

that’s my interpretation of it, like — Alex

retells movies.

>> STEVE:  Alex does plays, he does

movies.

>> ALEX:  If that is not how a movie is, I

think what I have said would be a good theme to

bring up in a story, Death of a Salesman.  I’m

just —

>> STEVE:  Arthur Miller, I apologize.

>> ALEX:  I’m proving the point that I can

sow a good seed and tell a good story.  I’m

trying to tell the story of working steps and

trying to put my finger on it the way I have

Death of a Salesman, but the point is,

motivation for living, you lose it.  It’s like,

why do this anymore?

>> STEVE:  I want Death of a Salesman to

be about a cheerleading team just for that

sake.

>> ALEX:  Death of a Salesman.

>> STEVE:  He’s dead [sound effects].

They all have briefcases instead of pom-poms,

cutting each other because it’s incredibly

dangerous.  Why did we suggest it?  Because he

was a salesman and he’s gonna die.

>> ALEX:  It’s dark and grim.  I know what

you’re saying, because suicide is a touchy

thing to talk about because it’s one of those

things — if you start talking about your own

needs or dark thoughts you’ve had, it’s like

whoa, and I heard about this one thing on WTF,

another podcast I listen to, about this one

syndrome that they talk about women have when

they have a kid, it’s called unwanted thought

syndrome where it’s like, oh my god, I just

thought about killing my baby, oh my god, does

that mean I want to kill my baby?  Oh my god,

I’m thinking about killing my baby, and they no

longer want to be near the baby anymore because

they think they’re going to kill it and it just

perpetuates its own demise and its own like —

>> STEVE:  I’m glad that’s a thing

because —

>> ALEX:  Unwanted thought theory.  So

it’s okay to think thoughts, just if they go

away and you don’t dwell on them, then you’re

fine but if you start like holding onto the

thought thinking about, like, you shouldn’t be

thinking about it, now you’re perpetuating this

like unwanted thought fucking syndrome.

>> STEVE:  I get that.  I get it.  Suicide

has a tendency of like, you just have a bad day

and you’re like, and you’re like, I just want

to die.  People Tweet about that shit or

Facebook post about it and that’s where I draw

the line where it’s like, no, if you ever gets

to the point where you need to share your

shitty day or moment in time there’s a better

way to do that.

>> ALEX:  It’s like come on, dude, this is

why Facebook —

>> STEVE:  That’s like a lack of maturity

type of thing but there’s that like serious

moment of like, you’re alone in your room —

here’s what’s been hitting me.

>> ALEX:  It’s fucking raining.

>> STEVE:  It’s fucking snowing.

>> ALEX:  I’m just going to play smoky

jazz on my Spotify playlist, like I had this

rainy Sunday and I was like this is the most

saddest day ever, like if I had to paint the

picture —

>> STEVE:  Here’s what has really fucked

with me recently.  I’ve come to grips with my

own mortality more and more, and it’s gotten to

a point where all of the memories that I have

from being a child I know are gone.  They’re

finite and they’re gone and they’re never

coming back.  Those moments of time are gone.

>> ALEX:  You could re-create them, but —

>> STEVE:  No, you can’t re-create them.

>> ALEX:  You could try to re-create them

but you can’t.

>> STEVE:  Those instances are gone, that

is the annals of history, it does not exist, it

will never be — fuck.

>> ALEX:  We are moving forward through

time.  It’s all time.  I can just say something

right now and be like, I’m going to put a tree

in my backyard, and you’re like bullshit.  It’s

just like, give me the fucking time.

>> STEVE:  That was an interesting want to

pick.

>> ALEX:  It’s one of those things that’s

achievable.

>> STEVE:  I didn’t know you had a green

thumbs.

>> ALEX:  I’ve been thinking about

gardening because I’ve been eating fruits and

vegetables and making a compost heap.

>> STEVE:  You should — I should sit you

down with my father.  He’s been gardening for a

long time.

>> ALEX:  I’m not ready to devote the time

to it, right now I’ve been devoting a lot of

time to cooking and taking photos of that so

I’ve been raising skills points in those

levels, and compost is like something — once,

you know, the career or whatever life starts

panning out monetarily, then you can start —

>> STEVE:  Compost, it’s the fucking pile

of garbage outside.  It’s organic garbage.

That’s all you’ve got to do, throw shit in a

fucking pile and throw dirt on it.  That’s a

compost pile.  You’re done.

>> ALEX:  What would I want that for?  To

garden with?

>> STEVE:  It’s richer soil.

>> ALEX:  I’m not going to garden.  I’m

not ready to garden yet, is my point.

>> STEVE:  Okay, but composting in and of

itself is not tricky process.

>> ALEX:  What would I want a fucking

bucket full of garbage for?

>> STEVE:  Well, now — now, I’m not

saying you can go out —

>> ALEX:  You’re saying in life.

>> STEVE:  I’m saying in general, you made

it sound like the hardest thing in the world,

“I’ve got to learn how to compost.”  Throw

orange peels, throw some dirt on it.

>> ALEX:  Oh, no, I like to read about

certain things, like think about the best way

to compost.  I think somebody has written an

article about it that I could read on the

Internet.

>> STEVE:  Everything exists on the

Internet.

>> ALEX:  I have lived my life by the

Internet.  I’m going to tie my shoe today, how

to tie my shoe, and you learn a new way of

tying your shoe.  God knows I did, thanks to

Ted.  I learned a new way to tie my shoe thanks

to Ted.  I’m not even wearing shoes I have to

lace.

>> STEVE:  You wear boat shoes.  You don’t

need that.

>> ALEX:  It’s just slippers essentially

that I wear around.

>> STEVE:  Those are like moccasin-type

things.  Those are fine.  You can wear those

out and be totally fine.  That’s fine.

>> ALEX:  Earlier today at the meeting at

Newton we were talking about brands and what

kind of brands do you wear, and I was like, I

don’t wear any brands.

>> STEVE:  If really, honestly, if you

could just make your own clothes and it didn’t

take that much time, you would.

>> ALEX:  I would.  I’ll pick this fucking

door and this old zipper and maybe this canvas

bag.

>> STEVE:  I was at least going to say,

like a shower curtain or something, you would

do — like something made of fabric.

>> ALEX:  Like a hubcap and a fucking

washboard, a cheese grater.

>> STEVE:  Cheese grater, as a codpiece.

No, I like mine better.

>> ALEX:  You’re absolutely right.  I have

lived this life of, you know, I’m surrounded —

>> STEVE:  This is here.

>> ALEX:  This is meant to be worn, right?

And people love that shit.  Again at Newton,

the person I meet was like, oh, I didn’t

recognize you without the hat, from Dine &

Sign, there was a couple episodes with the hat

and I said, it’s a hat, you’re supposed to wear

a hat.  Somebody intended this has to be worn,

right?

>> STEVE:  So I wore it on camera.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, that’s it.  What’s wrong?

>> STEVE:  Because most people have a

train of thought as to why they’re wearing

certain things.  What I’m wearing right now is

because I don’t have any clean clothing.

>> ALEX:  What’s wrong with what you’re

wearing?

>> STEVE:  Nothing.  I’m just saying, but

like this is it.

>> ALEX:  Do you think about that often?

Do you think about your wardrobe, like you wake

up and you say, today’s the day I’m going to

wear a fucking polo and slacks?

>> STEVE:  I think of my appearance,

wardrobe included in that.

>> ALEX:  Today I’m scrubbing out and I’m

going to have fucking sweatpants and a —

>> STEVE:  You remember — you have to

remember this, the battle gear?  Fucking

sweatpants and a ratty-ass shirt, went to

class, took an exam that I didn’t study for and

just fucking banged it out, probably cheated my

balls off and then walked out.  It’s a battle

gear day.  Usually those days I went to get an

Angus third pounder at McDonald’s, total slob.

Battle gear.

>> ALEX:  I haven’t really thought about

that, I’ve just thought about different

aesthetics, especially now that clothes fit me

differently, so it’s like half my battle is

finding stuff that fits.

>> STEVE:  I got a used shirt right now.

This shirt is three sizes too big.

>> ALEX:  I recognize, I guess half my

look has become wearing baggy clothes.

>> STEVE:  I used to do that.

>> ALEX:  I don’t like it any more.  I’d

rather wear —

>> STEVE:  It’s nice wearing form-fitting

stuff.  It’s also for me almost impossible.

>> ALEX:  Why?

>> STEVE:  Because my body is not

proportioned.  I would have to get custom-made

clothes.

>> ALEX:  Like fucking Stretch Armstrong?

>> STEVE:  No, hang on.  You know those

button-down shirts that I wore when I had a job

for a little while?  I kept ripping them.  I’m

not kidding, like five of them ripped in the

same spot each time right at the elbow, or like

— I do not fit in those shirts.

>> ALEX:  You have callousy elbows, like

little razors, diamonds, like scales.  You have

scales on your elbows.

>> STEVE:  It’s always the same, there are

ways to fix that particular thing, but like if

it wasn’t that, probably it would have been

something in the back.  Like, I am not

proportioned to wear shirts off of a rack type

of deal.  The normal quote unquote human figure

is not what I’ve got.  I have a very big ass

and very big shoulders.

I do, I always have.  So like I’m aware of

that as I go out and it’s kind of always been

like I dress accordingly because this is what

fits, sort of like your mentality.  But I’m

always aware of it, I’m aware that I like to

look good, so I want to wear these things,

these things work well together.

>> ALEX:  I don’t know if I’ve consciously

taken it to that level because —

>> STEVE:  I’m a vain son of a bitch.  I

really am.

>> ALEX:  But at the same time you’re vain

for yourself, because like how do you know what

looks good is actually good?

>> STEVE:  Isn’t vain kind of for yourself

anyway?

>> ALEX:  Well no, I’m saying your

perspective is, I think I make myself look

good, but no, you think you make yourself look

good in what you think is good because —

>> STEVE:  Then I’ve made an invalid

assumption.  You’re assuming that I’m

considering what I’m wearing to be good.

>> ALEX:  Really, so you don’t enjoy the

things you wear?

>> STEVE:  No, I do, but to me I kind of

have your attitude of, I don’t really care all

that much.  What do you like?  You like these

things?  Okay, cool, done.  There you go.  I’m

clothed.

>> ALEX:  Problem solved, and you look

good.  I’ve sort of taken a different approach

of, I’m going to wear this —

>> STEVE:  Because it’s here.

>> ALEX:  And I don’t care what comes of

that, and is that just a bad sense of style, is

that a bad sense of dressing, or is it his own

sense of style?  You make that work, like —

you just do.

>> STEVE:  You have to have a certain je

ne sais quoi to pull that off.  In English

terms, you’ve got to have the balls to just not

give a shit, which if you don’t —

>> ALEX:  I have the balls.

>> STEVE:  You don’t give a shit, so we’re

done.

>> ALEX:  It’s all about having balls.

Going back to E.T., I look at some things, it’s

like it takes a set of balls to tell someone, I

need a shot that looks like this.

>> STEVE:  Sir, that will cost fifty five

thousand dollars.

>> ALEX:  Really, it’s just like, I want a

shot of this:  Vertigo shot of the town coming

in and then this guy walks over and then he

pulls out a walkie-talkie and then a vertigo

shot back.  I was impressed at these like

things that were designed and I broke it down,

like how would you communicate that to someone

either visually or in text, and it was very

cool.  It was one of those — the power of

moviemaking.

>> STEVE:  I agree.

>> ALEX:  And being vain.  We strive to be

great in all things, awesome.

>> STEVE:  That was a hell of a

[inaudible].

>> ALEX:  That is what the reason for

living is, to be awesome at things and that’s

what sort of happened to Junior Seau is like —

>> STEVE:  I’m no longer awesome,

therefore he just — and I can’t fathom what

was going through his mind exactly because I’ve

never achieved the level of success that he —

>> ALEX:  This talks about — I forget

what movie it was from, there was a quote where

it was like, never will I enjoy the man who

makes his success too quickly, that notion of a

person who has an overnight success will

squander it away or not truly appreciate it as

someone who has worked really hard for a long

amount of time and then gets to that point he

always knew he deserved, it just didn’t happen

as quick as he wanted it to, so he appreciates

it more and it’s like yeah, but once you get to

that point, you worked really hard and you no

longer have it, how do you handle that?

>> STEVE:  I don’t know.  I really don’t.

I hope eventually I will be in a position of

Junior Seau where I’ve had a phenomenal career

and then —

>> ALEX:  And then you just perpetuate it.

>> STEVE:  That’s it, it’s now over, now

move onto the next phase of life.  I hope at

some point that happens to me because at least

then I would have had the success.

>> ALEX:  But in your mind you will

perpetuate some level of attaining goodness in

the next phase.

>> STEVE:  But I’m sure Junior Seau

thought so too, I want to rock this out and

then I’ll be this guy forever and I’ll do this

and this and this, and shit just didn’t go his

way, and that was it.

>> ALEX:  That’s deep.  This is a deep

half to end on, but it made me think about

things and that at the very least we can have

people thinking about things.  But hey, wait,

before you go, don’t forget to follow us at

twitter.com/OpenLounge.

>> STEVE:  Or Facebook.com/OpenLounge,

which I have been using more and more lately.

>> ALEX:  Facebook? Taking that on the

road?

>> STEVE:  Yes.

>> ALEX:  It’s very important because we

stepped out, we’re going to step back in to

give you the social media stuff.  That’s very

important.  You can make this show your own,

especially with the transcription process.

>> STEVE:  I’ve actually started talking

to Brandon like, just one-on-one.

>> ALEX:  Via Twitter?

>> STEVE:  No, Facebook.  I don’t really

use Twitter like that.  Twitter is like kind of

a separate thing.

>> ALEX:  It’s like Instant Message with

the world, so you can talk to us anytime,

especially with hopefully our newfound

interested audience.

>> STEVE:  He’s calling the fuck people

rule the D’Toolio rule, which I very much like.

>> ALEX:  If you’re interested about that

rule, once again, follow us on Twitter and

Facebook.  But I think we’re going to end on

that note so this one is for him, for all those

people that like to think out there.  We’re

covering the tab tonight.  I’m very stricken by

this.

>> STEVE:  Don’t forget to tip your

waitress.

>> ALEX:  Yeah, please don’t forget to tip

her.  She might need it.

>> STEVE:  She might.

>> ALEX:  We’ll see you next week, and

we’ll save you a seat.

(Background noise)

>> BRANDON:  Hey, what are you guys still

doing here?  Go check out Podsmiths.com.

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